Election 2016

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dthomas=ddixon
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Re: Election 2016

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Duck07 wrote:
oregontrack wrote:i didn't make a distinction between handgun or rifle so i'm not 100% sure where your first sentence is coming from.

but you did bring up a valid point later on. i myself have never understood why we as a nation have a mental health vs. guns mentality. it's seems pretty obvious to me that we have a gun problem and we have a mental heath problem. why is it so hard for both sides to admit that? people aren't getting proper care in this country, and access to unnecessary guns is crazy easy. seems like a pair of issues if i've ever seen 'em. i don't get why we can't try to tackle both, and neither side will budge until their cause wins out.

as for "the only way to prevent crime is to eliminate all laws", sure. that's technically true, but it's also a stupid mindset. if anyone ever says to you "ban all guns, all shootings will end" kick them in the kidney for me. the problem we have is that the left likes to use an argument similar to that, and the right throws up their hands and says, "gun restrictions won't stop all crime, so there's no point doing anything." both sides are RIDICULOUSLY stupid. there's still going to be evil people doing evil things, but consider me confused as to why one side of the aisle is so gung-ho on a do-nothing mindset. okay, okay. i know why they don't want to do anything. but still. if tighter restrictions still allow the fine folks of the NRA to sell guns, and even one mass shooting is prevented because one douche with a bad agenda can't figure out how to get his hands on something... what's the issue again
The first part was about the 45 rounds in a minute, same with throwing McVeigh in there. The mechanism by which you kill someone is NOT the problem. You can do much worse with common farm supplies and the right bit of knowledge. We make guns a scapegoat because we believe we can escape the harsh realities of life, which is really the point of the philosophical "eliminate all laws." Human history is littered with everyday atrocities and we haven't changed. It's no different than the end sexual assault campaigns. All you can do is lessen the conditions from which these symptoms arise but we don't focus on that and the mental health professionals have all bought into the lie and instead treat the symptom as if it's the cause.

Take depression, I believe that if you examine the state of the world and don't feel depressed at all that something is wrong with you. It's funny how doctors take a Hippocratic oath and yet the man was against non plant based medicine!

By and large all of us on here are on the same page, we just have degrees of difference.
The unwillingness of our country to address mental illness as the root in almost all these shootings is frightening. Guns are not the issue. Banning them is not going to keep mentally ill people from either still obtaining a gun or finding a different form of weaponry to carry out the same violence. In 2014 three times more people were killed by hands and feet than by assault weapons. The fear and demonization of high capacity weapons is not a logical one, it's an emotional response. I'll never understand why people's first response to evil people taking lives is to restrict law abiding a citizens liberties and rights to self-preservation.

Also, countries where guns are banned don't see a decrease in violent crime. Which is something we can all agree on: Violence is evil. Banning guns in America is likely not going to slow down violent crime though. With how many guns exist in this country it likely barely slow down gun crime. Just look at Chicago. Where, again, illegal handguns are used to kill far, far more people than assault weapons.
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oregontrack
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Re: Election 2016

Post by oregontrack »

i don't feel it's illogical for me to not want to stand in an area where one man has to ability to kill 49 people and injure dozens more.

your thoughts on mental health are spot-on. but it's not an either/or debate. we have a mental health problem in this country, and we have a gun problem.
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Re: Election 2016

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oregontrack wrote:i don't feel it's illogical for me to not want to stand in an area where one man has to ability to kill 49 people and injure dozens more.

your thoughts on mental health are spot-on. but it's not an either/or debate. we have a mental health problem in this country, and we have a gun problem.
People don't have to be mentally ill to commit murder and guns don't kill people, people kill people.

What needs to be done is extensive background checks on anyone who wants to purchase assault and semi-automatic weapons. In the right hands, an individual can also inflict a significant amount of damage with a handgun. I'm not saying that anyone's rights should be taken away. Quite the contrary. I'm simply saying that there need to be laws in place so "a good look" can be taken at the potential buyer before a final sale is made.

I just saw on the news this morning where the owner of the gun shop in Orlando reported that shooter as being suspicious to law enforcement but they chose not to take action. They may not have felt that they had cause. After all, the guy was only inquiring about purchasing Grade 3 Body Armour and had been on the terror watch list on two separate occasions. No red flags there, eh? :shock:
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Re: Election 2016

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Regarding Donald Trump, him being President scares me in a big way, even more so than Hillary. The biggest thing about him is his authoritarian leadership style. His "my way or the highway" attitude and not being inclined to listen to the advise of his subordinates is very concerning.

Anyone who believes that they're the smartest person in the room about EVERYTHING is a complete idiot. Good leaders surround themselves with strong, experienced, intelligent individuals. They listen to their advice, weigh what they've learned and then make an informed decision based on that. I can't see Trump as being that kind of leader. He'll surround himself with a bunch of "yes men" and replace them any time someone rubs him wrong or speaks against him.

That being said, although I'm NOT a fan of Hillary Clinton either, at least she has 4 years as Secretary of State, 8 years in the U.S. Senate and a two-term former President as her husband that she can consult freely.

I'd feel better with her as President for 4 years and then, hopefully, the Republicans can regroup and prevent anything like this from happening again.

My two cents. I fully expect that others may feel differently.
Last edited by SuperDuck on Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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greenyellow
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Re: Election 2016

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SuperDuck wrote:
oregontrack wrote:i don't feel it's illogical for me to not want to stand in an area where one man has to ability to kill 49 people and injure dozens more.

your thoughts on mental health are spot-on. but it's not an either/or debate. we have a mental health problem in this country, and we have a gun problem.
People don't have to be mentally ill to commit murder and guns don't kill people, people kill people.

What needs to be done is extensive background checks on anyone who wants to purchase assault and semi-automatic weapons. In the right hands, an individual can also inflict a significant amount of damage with a handgun. I'm not saying that anyone's rights should be taken away. Quite the contrary. I'm simply saying that there need to be laws in place so "a good look" can be taken at the potential buyer before a final sale is made.

I just saw on the news this morning where the owner of the gun shop in Orlando reported that shooter as being suspicious to law enforcement but they chose not to take action. They may not have felt that they had cause. After all, the guy was only inquiring about purchasing Grade 3 Body Armour and had been on the terror watch list on two separate occasions. No red flags there, eh? :shock:
The problem the FBI had there was the store owner never got Mateen's name and was only able to give a brief physical description of him. Not sure even the best of law enforcement agents would have found Mateen with that kind of information.
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Re: Election 2016

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greenyellow wrote:
SuperDuck wrote:
oregontrack wrote:i don't feel it's illogical for me to not want to stand in an area where one man has to ability to kill 49 people and injure dozens more.

your thoughts on mental health are spot-on. but it's not an either/or debate. we have a mental health problem in this country, and we have a gun problem.
People don't have to be mentally ill to commit murder and guns don't kill people, people kill people.

What needs to be done is extensive background checks on anyone who wants to purchase assault and semi-automatic weapons. In the right hands, an individual can also inflict a significant amount of damage with a handgun. I'm not saying that anyone's rights should be taken away. Quite the contrary. I'm simply saying that there need to be laws in place so "a good look" can be taken at the potential buyer before a final sale is made.

I just saw on the news this morning where the owner of the gun shop in Orlando reported that shooter as being suspicious to law enforcement but they chose not to take action. They may not have felt that they had cause. After all, the guy was only inquiring about purchasing Grade 3 Body Armour and had been on the terror watch list on two separate occasions. No red flags there, eh? :shock:
The problem the FBI had there was the store owner never got Mateen's name and was only able to give a brief physical description of him. Not sure even the best of law enforcement agents would have found Mateen with that kind of information.
I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the heads up.
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Re: Election 2016

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I'm moving this bad boy where it belongs...
dthomas=ddixon
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Re: Election 2016

Post by dthomas=ddixon »

SuperDuck wrote:
greenyellow wrote:
SuperDuck wrote:
oregontrack wrote:i don't feel it's illogical for me to not want to stand in an area where one man has to ability to kill 49 people and injure dozens more.

your thoughts on mental health are spot-on. but it's not an either/or debate. we have a mental health problem in this country, and we have a gun problem.
People don't have to be mentally ill to commit murder and guns don't kill people, people kill people.

What needs to be done is extensive background checks on anyone who wants to purchase assault and semi-automatic weapons. In the right hands, an individual can also inflict a significant amount of damage with a handgun. I'm not saying that anyone's rights should be taken away. Quite the contrary. I'm simply saying that there need to be laws in place so "a good look" can be taken at the potential buyer before a final sale is made.

I just saw on the news this morning where the owner of the gun shop in Orlando reported that shooter as being suspicious to law enforcement but they chose not to take action. They may not have felt that they had cause. After all, the guy was only inquiring about purchasing Grade 3 Body Armour and had been on the terror watch list on two separate occasions. No red flags there, eh? :shock:
The problem the FBI had there was the store owner never got Mateen's name and was only able to give a brief physical description of him. Not sure even the best of law enforcement agents would have found Mateen with that kind of information.
I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the heads up.
I find it hard to believe that the gun shop didn't have camera's that the FBI could have used to identify Mateen. Th real issue is lack of ability and effort from the FBI. Another government run entity that happens to be incompetent. I'm shocked.

Extensive backround checks are already in place. The next step is to forgo due process and start punishing people based on crimes they have yet to commit. Which is unconstitutional and a very slippery slope if there ever was one.

The idea that, because sick, evil people insist on killing others, law abiding citizens should relinquish their right to arm and protect ourselves to a government that has proven over and over that they are incapable of protecting us is ridiculous to me. This is now 3 terrorists in a row that the FBI has been aware of and deemed "safe" that have gone on to carry out an attack.

And it will never happen, our world will never be entirely safe. Especially when mental illness and ideologies like radical Islam exist.
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Re: Election 2016

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I suppose putting limits on speech for example wouldn't be an infringement of our rights. Like if we created a law that forbade speaking ill of politicians. We wouldn't be taking away people's ability to speak, just speak ill of others and thus not create any discord.

I think the real answer though is what we see in the UK. Now you don't see rallies to turn in your guns. Now it's all about Save a Life, Surrender a Knife!
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Re: Election 2016

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If people want an idea of what a Trump victory will look like, just check out a potential Brexit is doing to the global markets.
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Re: Election 2016

Post by GrandpaDuck »

Duck24 wrote:If people want an idea of what a Trump victory will look like, just check out a potential Brexit is doing to the global markets.
I feel helpless. I am staring at my IRA, unable to switch my funds before they will be ravaged at the opening bell tomorrow morning. But however much I recover, I'll switch to T-bills before the November election. As I too believe a Trump victory would cause a panic on Wallstreet unless he makes a major shift away from his trade rhetoric at the very least.
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Re: Election 2016

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Trump won't win but the fact that he's a legitimate candidate in this race is SCARY.
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Re: Election 2016

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Phenom wrote:Trump won't win but the fact that he's a legitimate candidate in this race is SCARY.
I haven't been as outspoken for a candidate since Dubya and that's how I feel about Hillary. Wall Street Junkie, Bride of Franken food, Shortsighted War Hawk with an abysmal record on foreign policy. If that doesn't scare people off then it shows just how low this country has fallen.
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Re: Election 2016

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Duck24 wrote:If people want an idea of what a Trump victory will look like, just check out a potential Brexit is doing to the global markets.
Lol, that's such an absurd statement to make, especially in light of our own economic policies.
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Re: Election 2016

Post by Duck24 »

Duck07 wrote:
Duck24 wrote:If people want an idea of what a Trump victory will look like, just check out a potential Brexit is doing to the global markets.
Lol, that's such an absurd statement to make, especially in light of our own economic policies.
Not even talking about policy, just how the markets react to uncertainty in large economic markets. The Brexit might be a good thing long term for the UK, who knows, but the uncertainty results in mass market sell offs. The actual implications of the U.K. leaving the EU won't be felt for 12-24 months and look at what the markets have done. The exact same thing would happen if a non-establishment type like Trump won.

You're smart 07 and you're big into politics. The synergies between the pro Brexit politicians/supports and Trump and his supporters are scary. It's not a far reach at all to say something similar would happen in the short term aftermath of a Trump election.
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