Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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Phalanx wrote:
Groundswell wrote:
This vitriol started in the 1980's on AM radio and has only escalated since. It started on the Right. I'm not going to excuse the Left because they have gotten pretty brutal, which started during the W. Bush years as a reaction to Fox News and the AM radio dial that had been attacking "libtards" for years. The hatred on AM radio is 30 plus years old. But, yes, now the Left is fighting back just as brutally. It's been toxic for both sides. The Left are "Feminazi Libtards" and the Right is "stupid, uneducated, racists". We all don't do a good enough job working to convince people who retreat to these "types" that it's just not true for most people lumped into either group.

But I will say this, and this isn't directed at you personally, lukeyrid13, or Phalanx, anybody in particular, but whomever voted for Trump he is in fact speaking for you. That's where your vote went. You get to write in whomever you want. You have choices. Conservatives had 20 candidates to chose from. It's not a bi-nary trap. You literally get to write any name you want. You knew exactly what you were getting when you cast a Trump vote. There's been no surprises here. He is who he's always been. The only way Trump is not speaking for you is if you denounce him and turn your back on him like a lot of thoughtful Conservatives have done. Otherwise, he's who you've chosen to represent you. Obviously, I'm being hyperbolic, but that is the very ideal of representation. I'm sympathetic to the "sometimes you have to hold your nose" vote argument, but not for the orange dude. He's way out of bounds. Our vote comes with consequences.
I'm sure you believe you are being reasonable and objective, but you need to understand there is an opposite perspective on this. First of all, Rush Limbaugh in the 80's and Fox news were the reactions to years of liberal monopolies on the media. That's why they spread like wildfire, everyone was sick of the politics of the major networks and newspapers. AM radio was barely even a thing back then; they used to throw the AM station in whenever an FM station was sold. Limbaugh and the guys that followed him were filling a massive void in the market.

Secondly, lots of Republican voted for Not Trump. It wasn't conservative Republicans that got him elected, because he isn't a conservative Republican. It was TV watchers. It was people who had never voted Republican in their lives before coming out in droves. But I think the left had a major hand in getting Trump elected. It was the reaction to their nutty behavior in the media, all of the insane social justice warrior crap that caused a backlash. It was the stopping traffic, and punching Trump supporters, even women. A common refrain among Republicans was 'stop making me like Trump'. The media gave him free attention whenever he wanted it, and as usual, they chose the Republican nominee among a field of much better candidates.

There were and are real issues that got Trump elected over Hillary. One major one was promise of protectionist tariffs (a traditionally left-wing position) to benefit the rust belt while Obama had been telling so many workers in that region to retrain into other fields. The Democrats lost those states because they were tone deaf. Also, Trump eventually got conservatives on board by talking about the Supreme Court. After Obama's picks of far left justices threatened to tip the balance into nutty left-wing constitutional interpretation, voting for Trump was a defensive move more than anything.

One of the few things that Bush did that I liked was putting a ban on the barbaric practice of partial-birth abortion. Not murdering babies seems like a no-brainer to any reasonable human being, but it was one of the very first things that Obama undid when he took office. Obama also actively raised ISIS up from a small band of rebels into a killing machine all over Iraq and Syria, just so he could get a freaking pipeline built, and he deposed and assassinated Gadaffi to keep him from setting up a gold-for-oil trade, which led to the slave trade in Libya. In his economy, competing with the Petrodollar must not be tolerated, trading slaves is more acceptable than trading gold. So when someone like you tells me how awful Trump is because he made a quirky tweet, you'll have to forgive me if I seem to be looking past you a little bit. This country and the world have a lot bigger problems. Trump, for all of his immaturity and stupidity, has a long way to go before he has as much blood on his hands as the last guy.
Merrick Garland was not an far left ideologue. Just the fact that he was almost unanimously voted in at the lower court is proof of that. When the same senators that voted for him in won’t even let a vote come up for him is politics at its worst.



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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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These bring up excellent points; like phalanx, I have very strong opinions on abortion and it's one of the strongest pulls for me politically. Should that one issue be enough to lure me into voting for Trump and thus ignore all of his other clear flaws though? What's the alternative if I don't? I only have two choices and he supports my strongest political stance.

It doesn't really matter but for my own personal solace I elected to purposely not vote this previous term. That said, if Oregon were to have been a swing state I may have bit the bullet and voted for Trump.
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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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Groundswell wrote:
But I will say this, and this isn't directed at you personally, lukeyrid13, or Phalanx, anybody in particular, but whomever voted for Trump he is in fact speaking for you. That's where your vote went. You get to write in whomever you want. You have choices. Conservatives had 20 candidates to chose from. It's not a bi-nary trap. You literally get to write any name you want. You knew exactly what you were getting when you cast a Trump vote. There's been no surprises here. He is who he's always been. The only way Trump is not speaking for you is if you denounce him and turn your back on him like a lot of thoughtful Conservatives have done. Otherwise, he's who you've chosen to represent you. Obviously, I'm being hyperbolic, but that is the very ideal of representation. I'm sympathetic to the "sometimes you have to hold your nose" vote argument, but not for the orange dude. He's way out of bounds. Our vote comes with consequences.
Obviously none of this would pertain to Hillary of course or any candidate from past elections. This continued path of blaming one side of the road and not the other continues to be part of the biggest problem we face. Get off the damn road already and quit arguing whether it's the east-bound lane or west-bound lane that is the problem. The road is toxic and you can't step onto it without getting tar all over you.
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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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Duck07 wrote:
Groundswell wrote:
But I will say this, and this isn't directed at you personally, lukeyrid13, or Phalanx, anybody in particular, but whomever voted for Trump he is in fact speaking for you. That's where your vote went. You get to write in whomever you want. You have choices. Conservatives had 20 candidates to chose from. It's not a bi-nary trap. You literally get to write any name you want. You knew exactly what you were getting when you cast a Trump vote. There's been no surprises here. He is who he's always been. The only way Trump is not speaking for you is if you denounce him and turn your back on him like a lot of thoughtful Conservatives have done. Otherwise, he's who you've chosen to represent you. Obviously, I'm being hyperbolic, but that is the very ideal of representation. I'm sympathetic to the "sometimes you have to hold your nose" vote argument, but not for the orange dude. He's way out of bounds. Our vote comes with consequences.
Obviously none of this would pertain to Hillary of course or any candidate from past elections. This continued path of blaming one side of the road and not the other continues to be part of the biggest problem we face. Get off the damn road already and quit arguing whether it's the east-bound lane or west-bound lane that is the problem. The road is toxic and you can't step onto it without getting tar all over you.
Even if you believe everybody is a corrupt liar cheater and stealer, there are always degrees. And of all the people who ran for president, one was clearly insane on top of it all. To me, this isn't a Right vs. Left issue. I've never before held these views about a president. This isn't normal. I'm blaming the entire country for allowing it to happen. Everybody. But the people who voted for him can't pretend they were stuck. They can't blame Libtards. If you're a full-throated Trump believer then more power to you. But you can't have it all ways. I appreciate all the folks who have been willing to talk about this. It's not easy. I respect a lot of the opinions being expressed and recognize common ground.
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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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Groundswell wrote: Even if you believe everybody is a corrupt liar cheater and stealer, there are always degrees. And of all the people who ran for president, one was clearly insane on top of it all. To me, this isn't a Right vs. Left issue. I've never before held these views about a president. This isn't normal. I'm blaming the entire country for allowing it to happen. Everybody. But the people who voted for him can't pretend they were stuck. They can't blame Libtards. If you're a full-throated Trump believer then more power to you. But you can't have it all ways. I appreciate all the folks who have been willing to talk about this. It's not easy. I respect a lot of the opinions being expressed and recognize common ground.
Please show examples of insanity. In fact, you might argue that Hillary as POTUS would in effect be the most direct definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I equate voting for Trump to throwing an old grenade into the system: It's likely its too old for the charge to go off, but just maybe it does and as a result, we get to see just how ugly the inside is.

So what are you specifically doing differently now so that you aren't falling into the trap of doing the same thing over and over again to let this "happen"? To be more specific to the origins of this thread, how do NBA coaches and players foster the right attitudes by simply responding with pejoratives and lower-tier thinking?

If you were a voter just as put off by the other choices, or had your choice taken away in the DNC primary, how can you not blame the party of the left in any capacity? Again, this repetitive blaming of one-side of the road as the worst and therefore cause of our problems is not helpful nor is it an educated stance to hold.
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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

Post by Groundswell »

Duck07 wrote:
Groundswell wrote: Even if you believe everybody is a corrupt liar cheater and stealer, there are always degrees. And of all the people who ran for president, one was clearly insane on top of it all. To me, this isn't a Right vs. Left issue. I've never before held these views about a president. This isn't normal. I'm blaming the entire country for allowing it to happen. Everybody. But the people who voted for him can't pretend they were stuck. They can't blame Libtards. If you're a full-throated Trump believer then more power to you. But you can't have it all ways. I appreciate all the folks who have been willing to talk about this. It's not easy. I respect a lot of the opinions being expressed and recognize common ground.
Please show examples of insanity. In fact, you might argue that Hillary as POTUS would in effect be the most direct definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I equate voting for Trump to throwing an old grenade into the system: It's likely its too old for the charge to go off, but just maybe it does and as a result, we get to see just how ugly the inside is.

So what are you specifically doing differently now so that you aren't falling into the trap of doing the same thing over and over again to let this "happen"? To be more specific to the origins of this thread, how do NBA coaches and players foster the right attitudes by simply responding with pejoratives and lower-tier thinking?

If you were a voter just as put off by the other choices, or had your choice taken away in the DNC primary, how can you not blame the party of the left in any capacity? Again, this repetitive blaming of one-side of the road as the worst and therefore cause of our problems is not helpful nor is it an educated stance to hold.
Thank you for admitting that your vote was a grenade. Lower tier thinking is something akin to believing Sharia Law is coming to America or that Obama is using empty Wal-Marts to set up holding areas for his military coup. Or that the military is down in Texas practicing containment for when Obama declares Martial Law. Again there are degrees no matter which side. And again, thank you for admitting you vote was a grenade. I'm sure the military contractors and Wall Streeters are crapping their pants.
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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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Why are you trying to obfuscate and deflect my questions and why would you believe that his opponent wouldn't cater to those interests you named considering past history? Anyone could see Wall St and War Street won before the primaries.
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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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Duck07 wrote:Why are you trying to obfuscate and deflect my questions and why would you believe that his opponent wouldn't cater to those interests you named considering past history? Anyone could see Wall St and War Street won before the primaries.
You spend all your time trying to convince everybody you're working on some 4th level that is way beyond the Sheepole, and the grand culmination of all your intellect is that you voted for Trump to try and bring down whatever it is you think you're bringing down. At this point in the thread, I don't think I have to enter into your gotcha game.
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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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In the long run, how much does it really matter who wins the presidential election? I would say some of the strongest political pulls are: gun control, abortion, gender/race issues, military/war and immigration.

How much has been done and/or changed on those issues in the past 20 years? The left had control of the house, senate and Obama in office and nothing was changed in gun reform. The right had Bush(strong anti-abortion) in office and the house and senate and nothing was done in regards to Roe vs. Wade. Bush spent a ton of money on the military namely money spent in the Middle East but then Obama maintained those troops and costs.
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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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Groundswell wrote:You spend all your time trying to convince everybody you're working on some 4th level that is way beyond the Sheepole, and the grand culmination of all your intellect is that you voted for Trump to try and bring down whatever it is you think you're bringing down. At this point in the thread, I don't think I have to enter into your gotcha game.
Naw, I'm on the 36th Chamber with Rza.

I'm not playing a gotcha game either but if your uncomfortable with this feel free to ignore it but how does a vote for Hillary in the previous election change anything in a substantial way for the better going forward with those specific issues you mentioned? Sometimes a step back is necessary to go 2 steps forward but I don't even think it's as bad as "a step back" like the way others have taken this. The real problem with Trump is that he rips the facade off the American Empire and it makes it much harder to support the actions of the state.

The focus should be on going forward with real and substantive ideas but instead we get identity politics/issues that shout and overwhelm discussion by focusing on symptoms and not causes.
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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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lukeyrid13 wrote:In the long run, how much does it really matter who wins the presidential election? I would say some of the strongest political pulls are: gun control, abortion, gender/race issues, military/war and immigration.

How much has been done and/or changed on those issues in the past 20 years? The left had control of the house, senate and Obama in office and nothing was changed in gun reform. The right had Bush(strong anti-abortion) in office and the house and senate and nothing was done in regards to Roe vs. Wade. Bush spent a ton of money on the military namely money spent in the Middle East but then Obama maintained those troops and costs.
Lukey, you’ve missed the 800 lb gorilla, which is the economy. It’s the largest motivator to voters and Trump offered a difference to voters. As far as Groundswell goes, he can call Trump orange, insane, embarrassing... or whatever adjective makes him feel better, but people often vote with their wallets and that should scare the holy crap out of him.

Lastly, Trump says the very things middle America says. That may irk and offend the left, but it’s reality. He calls corrupt, failing, 3rd world countries s#*^ holes (which is how most blue collar folks view the 3rd World) and the left is whipped into a “race” frenzy. I suspect his comment was not race related, but a lazy way of pointing out that 3rd world corruption and disarray is a big mess. Was it the politically correct way to say it? Nope. And it offended the left big-time. But his words are representative of many Americans. When the left becomes abhorred at these things and react with outrage, they are unknowingly alienating a lot of folks.

In the end, as 07 pointed out, a lot of folks wanted change and voted in an “outsider” who isn’t politically correct to act as a grenade. That was his very slogan. Drain the Swamp. Certainly that is a cocktail that creates outrage to those who have been in power, or were comforted by status-quo, and it sure is a different look to adjust to. The question is, will America adjust?
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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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UofDuck wrote:
lukeyrid13 wrote:In the long run, how much does it really matter who wins the presidential election? I would say some of the strongest political pulls are: gun control, abortion, gender/race issues, military/war and immigration.

How much has been done and/or changed on those issues in the past 20 years? The left had control of the house, senate and Obama in office and nothing was changed in gun reform. The right had Bush(strong anti-abortion) in office and the house and senate and nothing was done in regards to Roe vs. Wade. Bush spent a ton of money on the military namely money spent in the Middle East but then Obama maintained those troops and costs.
Lukey, you’ve missed the 800 lb gorilla, which is the economy. It’s the largest motivator to voters and Trump offered a difference to voters. As far as Groundswell goes, he can call Trump orange, insane, embarrassing... or whatever adjective makes him feel better, but people often vote with their wallets and that should scare the holy crap out of him.

Lastly, Trump says the very things middle America says. That may irk and offend the left, but it’s reality. He calls corrupt, failing, 3rd world countries s#*^ holes (which is how most blue collar folks view the 3rd World) and the left is whipped into a “race” frenzy. I suspect his comment was not race related, but a lazy way of pointing out that 3rd world corruption and disarray is a big mess. Was it the politically correct way to say it? Nope. And it offended the left big-time. But his words are representative of many Americans. When the left becomes abhorred at these things and react with outrage, they are unknowingly alienating a lot of folks.

In the end, as 07 pointed out, a lot of folks wanted change and voted in an “outsider” who isn’t politically correct to act as a grenade. That was his very slogan. Drain the Swamp. Certainly that is a cocktail that creates outrage to those who have been in power, or were comforted by status-quo, and it sure is a different look to adjust to. The question is, will America adjust?
Wait, Lulz, you actually can straight faced say you think he drained the swamp?
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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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pudgejeff wrote:Wait, Lulz, you actually can straight faced say you think he drained the swamp?
He was referencing what he campaigned on which is different from hanging a banner on a Naval Carrier saying "Mission Accomplished." I think only his most ardent supporters would try and make that claim and even then, it'd be more about how he's "trying" to do it even though it was obvious it was a fool's gold statement. It's certainly not an ignoble cause however, it's at the core of what we'd all like to see change about the system.
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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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Duck07 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:Wait, Lulz, you actually can straight faced say you think he drained the swamp?
He was referencing what he campaigned on which is different from hanging a banner on a Naval Carrier saying "Mission Accomplished." I think only his most ardent supporters would try and make that claim and even then, it'd be more about how he's "trying" to do it even though it was obvious it was a fool's gold statement. It's certainly not an ignoble cause however, it's at the core of what we'd all like to see change about the system.
Oh I don't think anyone would disagree with you that it would be wonderful. But everyone knew it was a joke that he would even think to, which he hasn't and has just made it worse. But to your point about whether he was saying it or referencing just what he campaigned, he ended with "That was his very slogan. Drain the Swamp. Certainly that is a cocktail that creates outrage to those who have been in power, or were comforted by status-quo, and it sure is a different look to adjust to. The question is, will America adjust?". By asking that question at the end implies that things have changed and he believes he's actually doing it.
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Re: Kerr and Popovich talk politics

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pudgejeff wrote:
Duck07 wrote:
pudgejeff wrote:Wait, Lulz, you actually can straight faced say you think he drained the swamp?
He was referencing what he campaigned on which is different from hanging a banner on a Naval Carrier saying "Mission Accomplished." I think only his most ardent supporters would try and make that claim and even then, it'd be more about how he's "trying" to do it even though it was obvious it was a fool's gold statement. It's certainly not an ignoble cause however, it's at the core of what we'd all like to see change about the system.
Oh I don't think anyone would disagree with you that it would be wonderful. But everyone knew it was a joke that he would even think to, which he hasn't and has just made it worse. But to your point about whether he was saying it or referencing just what he campaigned, he ended with "That was his very slogan. Drain the Swamp. Certainly that is a cocktail that creates outrage to those who have been in power, or were comforted by status-quo, and it sure is a different look to adjust to. The question is, will America adjust?". By asking that question at the end implies that things have changed and he believes he's actually doing it.
I think you missed my point. People were fed-up with Washington politics and wanted a disrupter, and they got that in spades. The question is; is that what they now want in a President, or bargained for? Perhaps. Perhaps not. We’ll see.
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