Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

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oregontrack
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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

Post by oregontrack »

hell of a block by aminu to save the charlotte game.

Boom wrote:
oregontrack wrote:as for collins, i firmly believe the pick was made with the idea to keep the current roster intact. because dame and mccollum's defensive/height issues on the perimeter, i believe the plan was/is to make collins a stretch 4 on offense and pair him with nurk for a twin tower thing on defense. but as you said previously he was a back-up at gonzaga, nowhere near ready for the grind of the nba, so the pick was never a solution for 2017-18.
The league is shifting. Defensively it may be harder to play Nurk & Collins together rather than Dame & CJ. I don't think drafting Monk or Mitchel would suggest that the Blazers would need to make a trade. Multiple teams are playing 3-4 guards now.

Olshey already made the mistake of giving Meyers Leonard 4/40 million contract. Drafting Collins magnifies that mistake. There's so many solid bigs in the league that aren't able to play meaningful minutes. That's how we got Nurk... So easy to find cheap options in FA.

i'm not going to get into it too far, because most of the people participating in this thread don't seem to be collins fans and there's no real use in attempting to change anyone's mind on the internet, but if collins is the player the blazers drafted based on the scouting reports, he can absolutely defend the four. he projects as a stout p&r defender with plus athleticism and a high basketball iq.

i would sell it like this: collins is a move that, if he pans out, makes portland much better on both ends of the floor and fits in seamlessly with the current group. with the way money is going to be forever tied up with this team, the only way to significantly improve is with guys with huge upsides like collins at positions where the current output is meh at best. i like donovan mitchell and malik monk just fine, they're both going to be fine players, but if you add either to this team and your three best players are all 6'3 and under that's a rough spot to be in. that's not going to get you out of the high lottery/bad playoff seed purgatory we are stuck in. i'm not saying collins WILL get us out of there, but if he pans out we have a much better shot at doing so with him rather than another guard.
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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

Post by Phenom »

oregontrack wrote:hell of a block by aminu to save the charlotte game.

Boom wrote:
oregontrack wrote:as for collins, i firmly believe the pick was made with the idea to keep the current roster intact. because dame and mccollum's defensive/height issues on the perimeter, i believe the plan was/is to make collins a stretch 4 on offense and pair him with nurk for a twin tower thing on defense. but as you said previously he was a back-up at gonzaga, nowhere near ready for the grind of the nba, so the pick was never a solution for 2017-18.
The league is shifting. Defensively it may be harder to play Nurk & Collins together rather than Dame & CJ. I don't think drafting Monk or Mitchel would suggest that the Blazers would need to make a trade. Multiple teams are playing 3-4 guards now.

Olshey already made the mistake of giving Meyers Leonard 4/40 million contract. Drafting Collins magnifies that mistake. There's so many solid bigs in the league that aren't able to play meaningful minutes. That's how we got Nurk... So easy to find cheap options in FA.

i'm not going to get into it too far, because most of the people participating in this thread don't seem to be collins fans and there's no real use in attempting to change anyone's mind on the internet, but if collins is the player the blazers drafted based on the scouting reports, he can absolutely defend the four. he projects as a stout p&r defender with plus athleticism and a high basketball iq.

i would sell it like this: collins is a move that, if he pans out, makes portland much better on both ends of the floor and fits in seamlessly with the current group. with the way money is going to be forever tied up with this team, the only way to significantly improve is with guys with huge upsides like collins at positions where the current output is meh at best. i like donovan mitchell and malik monk just fine, they're both going to be fine players, but if you add either to this team and your three best players are all 6'3 and under that's a rough spot to be in. that's not going to get you out of the high lottery/bad playoff seed purgatory we are stuck in. i'm not saying collins WILL get us out of there, but if he pans out we have a much better shot at doing so with him rather than another guard.
Perfectly stated.
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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

Post by Boom »

oregontrack wrote:i'm not going to get into it too far, because most of the people participating in this thread don't seem to be collins fans and there's no real use in attempting to change anyone's mind on the internet, but if collins is the player the blazers drafted based on the scouting reports, he can absolutely defend the four. he projects as a stout p&r defender with plus athleticism and a high basketball iq.
I'm more concerned if he can switch onto perimeter players. If not then the Blazers will be worst defensively when he plays with Nurk.
oregontrack wrote:but if you add either to this team and your three best players are all 6'3 and under that's a rough spot to be in. that's not going to get you out of the high lottery/bad playoff seed purgatory we are stuck in. i'm not saying collins WILL get us out of there, but if he pans out we have a much better shot at doing so with him rather than another guard.
I guess I'm higher on NurK... but the 3 best players on the Rockets are PG/combo guards.

I don't see how playing two 7 footers together gets this team out of Purgatory. The league has changed.
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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

Post by oregontrack »

we need to stop playing home games.
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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

Post by UOducksTK1 »

Nice win over Spurs (at home of all places) without Lillard.

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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

Post by StevensTechU »

The Blazers badly need a strong wing player. You can see that most of the nights where they're playing well, Harkless/Aminu/Connaughton are having a good night from outside, and when they aren't then the team can't get it right. Not having Crabbe has been an issue all year.

He's way too expensive at this point, but if this team had Wes Matthews (a "3 and D" kind of player) I think they move solidly into the 4th spot in the west.
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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

Post by Phalanx »

Chris Paul torches Lillard for the umpteenth time and Damian has a temper tantrum at the end. Am I the only one who noticed the Blazers playing better without him? If I were management, I would at least be checking to see what he would fetch on the trade market, especially with the Blazers still being in the luxury tax if they don't make a move. Not sure who in the league would be willing to take on Dame's contract, but it is worth looking into.
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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

Post by Merganzer »

Phalanx wrote:Chris Paul torches Lillard for the umpteenth time and Damian has a temper tantrum at the end. Am I the only one who noticed the Blazers playing better without him? If I were management, I would at least be checking to see what he would fetch on the trade market, especially with the Blazers still being in the luxury tax if they don't make a move. Not sure who in the league would be willing to take on Dame's contract, but it is worth looking into.
Makes sense. Ever since he's been at Portland Lillard has been deemed untouchable, but to what end? Small sample size, I know, but during his latest absence from the line up that Blazers went 5-2. In the bigger picture what is keeping Lillard on the roster really doing for Portland? He is not a magnet for attracting free agents, Carmelo Anthony, or anybody really. Of course that isn't really a slight on Lillard, FA's to PDX doesn't happen, so the idea of venturing the idea of a trade involving Lillard really is a franchise shaking move. McCollum can fill the role Lillard has, Napier has shown he has game. Keeping Lillard and the status quo is keeping Portland in the NBA purgatory of 6, 7, 8 seed perennially.
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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

Post by Phalanx »

Merganzer wrote:
Makes sense. Ever since he's been at Portland Lillard has been deemed untouchable, but to what end? Small sample size, I know, but during his latest absence from the line up that Blazers went 5-2. In the bigger picture what is keeping Lillard on the roster really doing for Portland? He is not a magnet for attracting free agents, Carmelo Anthony, or anybody really. Of course that isn't really a slight on Lillard, FA's to PDX doesn't happen, so the idea of venturing the idea of a trade involving Lillard really is a franchise shaking move. McCollum can fill the role Lillard has, Napier has shown he has game. Keeping Lillard and the status quo is keeping Portland in the NBA purgatory of 6, 7, 8 seed perennially.
I was mulling over the free agent factor too, well said. I'm not sure if Lillard would help to retain Nurkic, so I guess that is something to consider. I have a feeling the big guy walks after this season anyway unless a trade is made - I'm not sure where they get the money to sign him without making the salary cap problem worse.
I do wonder if the team has had talks with Napier about a contract. His per is up to 17.9 (slightly better than McCollum) and his FG% is .480 to Lillard's .424. Also, he is exactly a year younger than Dame. The team would lose something by switching them out, but they might gain $20 million/year or more in salary cap, and be able to resign Nurk no problem (or keep another really good player).
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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

Post by oregontrack »

Phalanx wrote:Chris Paul torches Lillard for the umpteenth time and Damian has a temper tantrum at the end. Am I the only one who noticed the Blazers playing better without him? If I were management, I would at least be checking to see what he would fetch on the trade market, especially with the Blazers still being in the luxury tax if they don't make a move. Not sure who in the league would be willing to take on Dame's contract, but it is worth looking into.

this was the crux of my "lillard for wiggins?" question a few weeks back. i happen to love napier, and i've noticed over time that the team doesn't fall apart without lillard; the napier/mccollum combo isn't too far removed in terms of productivity. if they look decent enough without lillard and with absolutely no help on the wing (given harkless' disappearing act) i wonder all the time how good we could be trading dame for a legit wing. wiggins was the guy who first came to mind, but obviously there's a league full of decent wing players.

i think there's quite a few teams, particularly in the east, who would gladly take dame, be it young/talented teams who can't attract free agents like indiana or teams perpetually treading water because they can't attract free agents or draft well (orlando). and then there are the stupid teams, like the new york franchises (though both have young point guards, it never hurts...). i don't know salary situations or who we could get back, but i do think its worth exploring, even if i doubt portland ever truly considers it.
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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

Post by Phalanx »

oregontrack wrote:

this was the crux of my "lillard for wiggins?" question a few weeks back. i happen to love napier, and i've noticed over time that the team doesn't fall apart without lillard; the napier/mccollum combo isn't too far removed in terms of productivity. if they look decent enough without lillard and with absolutely no help on the wing (given harkless' disappearing act) i wonder all the time how good we could be trading dame for a legit wing. wiggins was the guy who first came to mind, but obviously there's a league full of decent wing players.

i think there's quite a few teams, particularly in the east, who would gladly take dame, be it young/talented teams who can't attract free agents like indiana or teams perpetually treading water because they can't attract free agents or draft well (orlando). and then there are the stupid teams, like the new york franchises (though both have young point guards, it never hurts...). i don't know salary situations or who we could get back, but i do think its worth exploring, even if i doubt portland ever truly considers it.
Aside from the obvious fact that the Blazers would be giving up their Face Of The Franchise™ and would therefore have to admit they were starting over in some respect, there is also the fact that Lillard is overpaid and getting another team to take his contract on would involve a huge, team-reshaping commitment. Is another team willing, after watching the Blazers barely making the playoffs every year, to basically sign on for the same deal, with Lillard eating up a quarter of their team payroll? I don't think there are as many teams willing to do this as you suppose. Still, if New Jersey was willing to sign Crabbe to that ridiculous contract, there might be a GM out there desperate to make a splash and save their job, etc. Lillard is still in his prime for a few more years, and other teams might be better able to work around his bad defense than the Blazers. Lillard has been marketed well, and maybe Olshey could take advantage of that on the trade market.

I'm starting to wonder if a shrewd GM should make it a prerequisite that any player wanting a max deal should demonstrate that he can attract free agents. I remember Brandon Roy whining about not getting the extra-ultra max immediately and saying that he wanted to get paid so that he could start recruiting. Of course, that never came to anything, but at least we know that agents understand the link. Maybe GM's should turn the tables and demand it first.
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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

Post by Phalanx »

Stephen A. Smith believes Lillard should be the one asking for the trade to a bigger market so that he would make more All-Star teams.

https://www.blazersedge.com/2018/1/19/1 ... il-blazers


So take that, all of you who thought that Lillard should be traded for the good of the blazers. It's actually Lillard who should ask to be traded to somewhere where shooting .428 fg% and playing bad defense entitles one to an automatic all-star spot every year.
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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

Post by oregontrack »

it's too bad that the all star game is still a thing. didn't lillard finish 2nd team all nba two years ago and not sniff the all star team? anything that includes a fan vote is going to wind up dumb.
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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

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oregontrack wrote:it's too bad that the all star game is still a thing. didn't lillard finish 2nd team all nba two years ago and not sniff the all star team? anything that includes a fan vote is going to wind up dumb.
I believe the coaches choose the reserves. The bottom line is that Lillard isn't in the top tier of point guards in the West.
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Re: Portland Trail Blazers 2017-18 Thread

Post by StevensTechU »

The 'trade Lillard' talk is interesting. I understand comparing production, but sports is a business. I point that out because Lillard puts butts in the seats, sells jerseys, and has appeal outside of Portland. The franchse would be losing a ton of money by trading him and propping up Shabazz instead.
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