Who is your surprise duck football player this season so far

[Duck07]

So your dissapointed in 2, 2-gapping 3-4 DE's for not putting up big stats? Thats dumb...

Read the thread slowly and you may actually learn something Duffman, rather than exposing yourself as a comparative half-wit. The comedy value of you using the word "dumb" while filling your short post with a string of 3rd grade level grammatical/spelling errors was not lost on me, however. Well done.

I'd like to hear you elaborate on why Buckner has somehow underachieved when he leads the team in TFL and is 1 tackle from being tied for 1st with 44. Considering how the defense has been put into positions by their DC, I'd say Buckner is having a great year all things considered.

[gogreen55]

I'm not going to sit here and say he's been an elite talent. But he hasn't been bad at all.

Case and point, stop box score scouting, and go re-watch the games.

The amazing thing is you don't even realize that you have proven my point. As you just said, Armstead isn't playing like an elite talent, he has been average. If Mariota was playing like an average QB, I would be disappointed in his play also. Fortunately, Mariota is playing up to expectations. Hopefully Armstead manages to do that for once before his Oregon career ends.

By the way, you may want to watch the UCLA and Washington games again. These were arguably Oregon's two best defensive performances of the season, with Armstead being a non-factor in each. He didn't even play against UCLA and his only contribution in the Washington game was to keep a drive alive with an illegal hands to the face penalty. When the loss of a supposed 1st round talent on the defensive line is barely even noticeable, there is something wrong.

I'd like to hear you elaborate on why Buckner has somehow underachieved when he leads the team in TFL and is 1 tackle from being tied for 1st with 44. Considering how the defense has been put into positions by their DC, I'd say Buckner is having a great year all things considered.

Did you read this thread? I specifically elaborated on this. In fact, I specifically pointed out that Buckner has more than doubled Armstead's production in nearly every category. Again, as I stated previously, the issue with Buckner is his lack of pass rush in obvious passing situations. He only has 2 QB pressures on the year, the one area where he is underperforming the underachieving Armstead. He is capable of doing more in this area, as I am sure he and the coaches would be the first to admit. As I said previously, this will be the ideal week for both Armstead and Buckner to up their level of play in this area.

[ncduck]

I'm not going to sit here and say he's been an elite talent. But he hasn't been bad at all.

Case and point, stop box score scouting, and go re-watch the games.

The amazing thing is you don't even realize that you have proven my point. As you just said, Armstead isn't playing like an elite talent, he has been average. If Mariota was playing like an average QB, I would be disappointed in his play also. Fortunately, Mariota is playing up to expectations. Hopefully Armstead manages to do that for once before his Oregon career ends.

By the way, you may want to watch the UCLA and Washington games again. These were arguably Oregon's two best defensive performances of the season, with Armstead being a non-factor in each. He didn't even play against UCLA and his only contribution in the Washington game was to keep a drive alive with an illegal hands to the face penalty. When the loss of a supposed 1st round talent on the defensive line is barely even noticeable, there is something wrong.

I'd like to hear you elaborate on why Buckner has somehow underachieved when he leads the team in TFL and is 1 tackle from being tied for 1st with 44. Considering how the defense has been put into positions by their DC, I'd say Buckner is having a great year all things considered.

Did you read this thread? I specifically elaborated on this. In fact, I specifically pointed out that Buckner has more than doubled Armstead's production in nearly every category. Again, as I stated previously, the issue with Buckner is his lack of pass rush in obvious passing situations. He only has 2 QB pressures on the year, the one area where he is underperforming the underachieving Armstead. He is capable of doing more in this area, as I am sure he and the coaches would be the first to admit. As I said previously, this will be the ideal week for both Armstead and Buckner to up their level of play in this area.

Too harsh. You're talking down to people who know what they're talking about, and seem to be unwilling to listen to their POV. At the same time, you attack them for not just agreeing with your own POV. It's ok to disagree without being disagreeable.

[gogreen55]

Too harsh. You're talking down to people who know what they're talking about, and seem to be unwilling to listen to their POV. At the same time, you attack them for not just agreeing with your own POV. It's ok to disagree without being disagreeable.

Sorry ncduck, I'm not really here to make friends. In my opinion, none of my posts have been over the line, although my aggressive message board manner will obviously rub some people the wrong way. My posts normally tend to reflect the tone of the post I am responding to, such as Duffman's unintentionally comical foray into this thread.

[dthomas=ddixon]

Wogan. Kicks that go into the end zone are good.

[Duck07]

I'd like to hear you elaborate on why Buckner has somehow underachieved when he leads the team in TFL and is 1 tackle from being tied for 1st with 44. Considering how the defense has been put into positions by their DC, I'd say Buckner is having a great year all things considered.

Did you read this thread? I specifically elaborated on this. In fact, I specifically pointed out that Buckner has more than doubled Armstead's production in nearly every category. Again, as I stated previously, the issue with Buckner is his lack of pass rush in obvious passing situations. He only has 2 QB pressures on the year, the one area where he is underperforming the underachieving Armstead. He is capable of doing more in this area, as I am sure he and the coaches would be the first to admit. As I said previously, this will be the ideal week for both Armstead and Buckner to up their level of play in this area.

No I just felt like talking about the Skagit Valley Tulip festival, wasn't that the original topic? Even cowgirls get the blues!

So if DB has more than doubled his production, how can you make this claim? What is Buckner doing wrong in these situations in your view that is causing this then?

It is unfair to lump Buckner in with Armstead, since Buckner has clearly been more productive. That is why I specifically said my disappointment is mainly with Armstead, and to a lesser degree Buckner. That being said, I still expect more from Buckner when it comes to pass rush. When teams are in obvious passing situations, he is not winning his matchup on the line as often as he should (in my opinion). With Armstead and Buckner on the field, the Ducks should be able to get more consistent pressure than they have been getting with a 4 man rush.

You sure got all up in arms when you thought someone else was making stupid remarks, where have you seen a 4 man rush consistently this season to back up that claim? It seems to me any observer of the defense this year would see DB's lack of pass rush stats and say "Well, Don Pellum hasn't done anything to help the DL out in passing situations this year as we typically aren't bringing any more than 3 on a given play but look at what he's done elsewhere." Yes, sometimes we see 4 even 5 and 6, but usually that 4th rusher is Tony Washington coming from the slot on a delayed blitz which does nothing to help the 3 DL against the 5 OL at the snap. Neither does the Amoeba front help the rush either.

I'm not really concerned with how the DE's have played in the pass rush if only because I recognize that they are never going to get the job down with how we are playing defense. To me this would be like getting upset when the D-Boyz gave up all those passing yards/stats but people would ignore the fact that we were trying to stop the run first and foremost and the scheme left them out to dry. Our scheme right now is not conducive to creating pressure with our DL - I don't hold that on our DL but the coaches, whereas you seem to fault the players for that.

[gogreen55]

So if DB has more than doubled his production, how can you make this claim? What is Buckner doing wrong in these situations in your view that is causing this then?

Huh? Like I said, Buckner has not done that in terms of pressuring the QB, which is the point. Judging by your question, you are apparently mixing up the general lack of production of Armstead with the more specific focus on Buckner getting pressure on the QB. What is he doing wrong? In obvious passing situations, he isn't taking advantage of enough of his opportunities when he gets them. It is as simple as that.

As for the whole blame the coach vs. blame the player angle, that is a never ending argument. Frankly, I don't care who people want to blame since a person can come up with 100 excuses for every player on the roster. It is like some person trying to make the argument that Tyner hasn't been disappointing thus far this season because the coaches haven't put him in a position to succeed. They played him early in the games when the opposing defense was fresh, or they didn't run the right plays for him, or yada yada yada. The bottom line is Tyner has been disappointing thus far, regardless of who you try to blame for it.

[Duck07]

What is he doing wrong? In obvious passing situations, he isn't taking advantage of enough of his opportunities when he gets them. It is as simple as that.

As for the whole blame the coach vs. blame the player angle, that is a never ending argument.

Since this is the crux of what I'm asking about, I'll just focus on this. So what opportunities has he failed on specifically? Is he failing to disengage from a single blocker? Is he losing ground or falling down too easily? Does the scheme even ask him in these situations to be rushing the passer or do the coaches want him to "form a pocket?" I'm serious on this because this speaks to the specifics of what he's being asked to do on a given play and we know that in NA's defense, the DL weren't always asked to actually rush the passer on some of these plays. This is why when I look at our defense as a whole, I don't see issues with DB as a pass-rusher because I see the problem as being based on how they are being used.

Apparently were not going to find a common ground and that's fine. I just don't see how DB could be considered a disappointment in any regard without using any context.

[gogreen55]

So what opportunities has he failed on specifically?

What are you wanting, some review of every specific play where Buckner has been turned loose and failed to pressure the quarterback? I have watched every game this year more than once, but I don't have time for anything that extensive. If you watch the tape, it is pretty obvious in passing situations (in most cases) what a defensive lineman's job is on a particular play. You can see if they are dropping into coverage, or standing up the offensive lineman in front of them in order to form a pocket, or stunting, or making an effort to defeat blockers in order to pressure the QB. Too often this season (for my expectations of him at least, which are higher than that of an average lineman) Buckner has made a clear effort to rush the passer and has been handled. I am not expecting him to win every battle (particularly the times he does receive extra blocking attention, although even then an elite lineman should defeat it some of the time), or rack up double digit sacks, or lead the nation in QB hurries. Obviously there is a limit to what can realistically be expected from a player in this scheme, or any scheme for that matter. I simply expect him to produce pressure on a higher percentage of his opportunities than he has thus far.