If Mariota Is A "System" QB, Then What Is Winston?
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If Mariota Is A "System" QB, Then What Is Winston?
I get so sick of these "experts" saying how Marcus Mariota is a system QB, only throws to wide open receivers, Jameis Winston is more NFL ready, etc.
Have they taken a look at the recent history of Florida State QB's taken in the first round? EJ Manual and Christian Ponder are mediocre, at best. I suppose you could throw in later draft picks like Charlie Ward, Chris Weinke and others that suck, too. I haven't seen any of them thrive at the pro level. I'm not sure what makes them think Winston is going to be a slam dunk.
Thoughts?
Have they taken a look at the recent history of Florida State QB's taken in the first round? EJ Manual and Christian Ponder are mediocre, at best. I suppose you could throw in later draft picks like Charlie Ward, Chris Weinke and others that suck, too. I haven't seen any of them thrive at the pro level. I'm not sure what makes them think Winston is going to be a slam dunk.
Thoughts?
John 3:36
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Re: If Mariota Is A "System" QB, Then What Is Winston?
The thing I never got is how throwing to open receivers is a bad thing...additionally, if there was some magical offense that caused WR's to get open then any coach not running that magical offense should be fired. They fail to realize that Marcus should get the credit for so many WR's being open with his running threat and ability to mislead defenders with his eyes and pump fakes.
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Re: If Mariota Is A "System" QB, Then What Is Winston?
We need to admit to ourselves that Oregon QB's have not been doing great in the NFL. Akili was terrible, Joey was a back-up caliber QB who was pushed into a starting role for several years, Feeley was a back up, Kellen is a back-up, Dixon was basically a practice squad guy, and Darron Thomas never even got a sniff. Pretty much all of those guys looked like world beaters at one time or another at Oregon. So if I'm in charge of an NFL team, I would be stupid not to notice that trend and be hesitant about picking Mariota number one. Frankly, I wish he would go in the 20's so there would be less pressure on him to get out there and hit the ground running. I watched Aaron Rodgers sit behind Favre for a few years, sucking whenever he got the chance to play, and now he is one of the NFL's top QB's. That seems like the road that would help Marcus adjust and do well in the NFL. To this day, I wonder if Joey would have followed a similar trajectory if he didn't have to play for a crappy Lions team his first year.
None of this is to say that Winston is any better. I pity Tampa having to pick a QB number one.
None of this is to say that Winston is any better. I pity Tampa having to pick a QB number one.
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Re: If Mariota Is A "System" QB, Then What Is Winston?
Smith didn't take the nfl seriously and was forced to start for a terrible Bengals team. Dixon had injury problems and never was the same after his knee injury. Harrington was put into an even worse situation than smith, is anyone from the matt millen GM days still around? Nothing much was ever really expected from clemens, Thomas, or feely.Phalanx wrote:We need to admit to ourselves that Oregon QB's have not been doing great in the NFL. Akili was terrible, Joey was a back-up caliber QB who was pushed into a starting role for several years, Feeley was a back up, Kellen is a back-up, Dixon was basically a practice squad guy, and Darron Thomas never even got a sniff. Pretty much all of those guys looked like world beaters at one time or another at Oregon. So if I'm in charge of an NFL team, I would be stupid not to notice that trend and be hesitant about picking Mariota number one. Frankly, I wish he would go in the 20's so there would be less pressure on him to get out there and hit the ground running. I watched Aaron Rodgers sit behind Favre for a few years, sucking whenever he got the chance to play, and now he is one of the NFL's top QB's. That seems like the road that would help Marcus adjust and do well in the NFL. To this day, I wonder if Joey would have followed a similar trajectory if he didn't have to play for a crappy Lions team his first year.
None of this is to say that Winston is any better. I pity Tampa having to pick a QB number one.
If Harrington wasn't forced to start from day one for such a dysfunctional team he very well could still be in the league
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Re: If Mariota Is A "System" QB, Then What Is Winston?
And can you point me towards the great qb that FSU has produced?Phalanx wrote:We need to admit to ourselves that Oregon QB's have not been doing great in the NFL. Akili was terrible, Joey was a back-up caliber QB who was pushed into a starting role for several years, Feeley was a back up, Kellen is a back-up, Dixon was basically a practice squad guy, and Darron Thomas never even got a sniff. Pretty much all of those guys looked like world beaters at one time or another at Oregon. So if I'm in charge of an NFL team, I would be stupid not to notice that trend and be hesitant about picking Mariota number one. Frankly, I wish he would go in the 20's so there would be less pressure on him to get out there and hit the ground running. I watched Aaron Rodgers sit behind Favre for a few years, sucking whenever he got the chance to play, and now he is one of the NFL's top QB's. That seems like the road that would help Marcus adjust and do well in the NFL. To this day, I wonder if Joey would have followed a similar trajectory if he didn't have to play for a crappy Lions team his first year.
None of this is to say that Winston is any better. I pity Tampa having to pick a QB number one.
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Re: If Mariota Is A "System" QB, Then What Is Winston?
Given how harsh the NFL can be, I think it actually says something positive that both of Harrington's backups had lengthy NFL careers as backups.
As for Harrington, his career was snakebit the moment Detroit drafted him. He went to a horrific team where nobody cared about playing or winning. Then he was traded to Miami, where he at one point had a five-game winning streak but ultimately amassed a 5-6 record (the team went 1-4 when other QBs started, so this wasn't a very good team either). Then he went to Atlanta, which was another organization in disarray made even more crazy by Michael Vick's arrest (which thrust Harrington, again, into the starting role).
Harrington needed time to develop, just as the vast majority of good pro QBs do. He never got it. It was just one horrible fiasco after another. I'm glad he got out and found a way to be connected to his sport.
As for Harrington, his career was snakebit the moment Detroit drafted him. He went to a horrific team where nobody cared about playing or winning. Then he was traded to Miami, where he at one point had a five-game winning streak but ultimately amassed a 5-6 record (the team went 1-4 when other QBs started, so this wasn't a very good team either). Then he went to Atlanta, which was another organization in disarray made even more crazy by Michael Vick's arrest (which thrust Harrington, again, into the starting role).
Harrington needed time to develop, just as the vast majority of good pro QBs do. He never got it. It was just one horrible fiasco after another. I'm glad he got out and found a way to be connected to his sport.
Willie Taggart is a dick.
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Re: If Mariota Is A "System" QB, Then What Is Winston?
buckmarkduck wrote:And can you point me towards the great qb that FSU has produced?Phalanx wrote:We need to admit to ourselves that Oregon QB's have not been doing great in the NFL. Akili was terrible, Joey was a back-up caliber QB who was pushed into a starting role for several years, Feeley was a back up, Kellen is a back-up, Dixon was basically a practice squad guy, and Darron Thomas never even got a sniff. Pretty much all of those guys looked like world beaters at one time or another at Oregon. So if I'm in charge of an NFL team, I would be stupid not to notice that trend and be hesitant about picking Mariota number one. Frankly, I wish he would go in the 20's so there would be less pressure on him to get out there and hit the ground running. I watched Aaron Rodgers sit behind Favre for a few years, sucking whenever he got the chance to play, and now he is one of the NFL's top QB's. That seems like the road that would help Marcus adjust and do well in the NFL. To this day, I wonder if Joey would have followed a similar trajectory if he didn't have to play for a crappy Lions team his first year.
None of this is to say that Winston is any better. I pity Tampa having to pick a QB number one.
This was my original point. FSU QB's have been less than stellar in the NFL, but I do agree about Oregon QB's, as well. I also think that Harrington would have done much better if he rode the bench behind a good QB for 2-3 years before being thrown to the wolves.
I think Akili Smith was a good college QB and that was it. Same with Dixon. Clemons was a second round pick by the Jets and looked to be groomed for the starter job in a couple years, but it never worked out. He's a decent journeyman backup now, but he's not a long term solution for anyone.
I'll always be pulling hard for Mariota. I just don't see a Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck in this draft. It's a real crapshoot for those teams at the top. Personally, if I were in the Top-5 I'd want to trade out. Leonard Williams is a pretty sure thing, if you need him, but I wouldn't want to spend a Top-2 pick on him. Everyone else would be a bargain from #5-#15. I'd drop down, secure more picks, increase the odds of getting good players and filling more needs, AND save money.
John 3:36
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Re: If Mariota Is A "System" QB, Then What Is Winston?
Something funny I've noticed with the "spread qbs can't make it," crowd. They ignore that Foles didn't play in a pro set under Rich Rod, and that Andy Dalton avg 100 carries a year at TCU. They also ignore the fact that Newton is lazy, and his struggles aren't due to playing in the spread. The guy could be a top 5 qb if he had Mannining, Brady or Wilsons work ethic and drive.
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Re: If Mariota Is A "System" QB, Then What Is Winston?
buckmarkduck wrote:Something funny I've noticed with the "spread qbs can't make it," crowd. They ignore that Foles didn't play in a pro set under Rich Rod, and that Andy Dalton avg 100 carries a year at TCU. They also ignore the fact that Newton is lazy, and his struggles aren't due to playing in the spread. The guy could be a top 5 qb if he had Mannining, Brady or Wilsons work ethic and drive.
Foles didn't play under Rich Rod.
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Re: If Mariota Is A "System" QB, Then What Is Winston?
Yep. Rich Rod worked for CBS during Foles Sr year. Matt Scott was RR's first QB at Az.fpsduck wrote:buckmarkduck wrote:Something funny I've noticed with the "spread qbs can't make it," crowd. They ignore that Foles didn't play in a pro set under Rich Rod, and that Andy Dalton avg 100 carries a year at TCU. They also ignore the fact that Newton is lazy, and his struggles aren't due to playing in the spread. The guy could be a top 5 qb if he had Mannining, Brady or Wilsons work ethic and drive.
Foles didn't play under Rich Rod.
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Re: If Mariota Is A "System" QB, Then What Is Winston?
Every QB is a system QB. Without a system there is no team. It is a silly and ridiculous notion that MM is a system QB. They all are.
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Re: If Mariota Is A "System" QB, Then What Is Winston?
Either way he played in a non pro style O. He had Sonny Dykes as a OC then.fpsduck wrote:buckmarkduck wrote:Something funny I've noticed with the "spread qbs can't make it," crowd. They ignore that Foles didn't play in a pro set under Rich Rod, and that Andy Dalton avg 100 carries a year at TCU. They also ignore the fact that Newton is lazy, and his struggles aren't due to playing in the spread. The guy could be a top 5 qb if he had Mannining, Brady or Wilsons work ethic and drive.
Foles didn't play under Rich Rod.