Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

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pezsez1
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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

Post by pezsez1 »

Well, if no one else is calling for their coaches job, why should we? Is that your point? Or are you going to try and convince us Helfrich is just as good of a coach as all these other guys you keep bringing up?
Are Stanford fans drawing the same conclusions from a down year that many Oregon fans are about our team? That's what I'm asking. Shaw and Helfrich have very similar win-loss records, only this would be Shaw's second serious down year. Seems like his seat should be significantly hotter, right?

Feel free to dodge and not answer, though.
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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

Post by UOducksTK1 »

pezsez1 wrote:
Well, if no one else is calling for their coaches job, why should we? Is that your point? Or are you going to try and convince us Helfrich is just as good of a coach as all these other guys you keep bringing up?
Are Stanford fans drawing the same conclusions from a down year that many Oregon fans are about our team? That's what I'm asking. Shaw and Helfrich have very similar win-loss records, only this would be Shaw's second serious down year. Seems like his seat should be significantly hotter, right?

Feel free to dodge and not answer, though.
Eh 4-3 != 2-5. Plus still a lot of season to be played. We really have no real win right now. Stanford has beat K-State, ND, USC, and UCLA.

Stanford has Cal, UO, OSU, Arizona, and Rice to finish off the season. They could still very easily end up with 9 wins, which is acceptable for a down season.

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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

Post by QuackininBama »

pezsez1 wrote:
Well, if no one else is calling for their coaches job, why should we? Is that your point? Or are you going to try and convince us Helfrich is just as good of a coach as all these other guys you keep bringing up?
Are Stanford fans drawing the same conclusions from a down year that many Oregon fans are about our team? That's what I'm asking. Shaw and Helfrich have very similar win-loss records, only this would be Shaw's second serious down year. Seems like his seat should be significantly hotter, right?

Feel free to dodge and not answer, though.
Stanford finished last year winning the Pac-12 championship by beating,

#6 Notre Dame
#20 USC
Then won the Rose Bowl againt #5 Iowa.

Stanford didn't have an epic meltdown in their bowl game tying an all time record for most points given up in a comeback. Kinda apples and oranges right?
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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

Post by pezsez1 »

Stanford finished last year winning the Pac-12 championship by beating,

#6 Notre Dame
#20 USC
Then won the Rose Bowl againt #5 Iowa.

Stanford didn't have an epic meltdown in their bowl game tying an all time record for most points given up in a comeback. Kinda apples and oranges right?
And two years ago we played for the Natty, and last year we were a QB injury away from replacing Stanford in the Pac-12 title game (or winning the bowl game you referenced).

Not to mention this year's Oregon team -- bad defense, injuries and all -- is literally a few plays away from having a better record than Stanford.

So, apples and oranges? I don't see it, unless you base your view completely on results without any context behind said results. And I've never hid from the fact that I prefer arguing context rather than isolated data points.
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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

Post by BTJ201 »

pezsez1 wrote:
Stanford finished last year winning the Pac-12 championship by beating,

#6 Notre Dame
#20 USC
Then won the Rose Bowl againt #5 Iowa.

Stanford didn't have an epic meltdown in their bowl game tying an all time record for most points given up in a comeback. Kinda apples and oranges right?
And two years ago we played for the Natty, and last year we were a QB injury away from replacing Stanford in the Pac-12 title game (or winning the bowl game you referenced).

Not to mention this year's Oregon team -- bad defense, injuries and all -- is literally a few plays away from having a better record than Stanford.



So, apples and oranges? I don't see it, unless you base your view completely on results without any context behind said results. And I've never hid from the fact that I prefer arguing context rather than isolated data points.


Valid point, so are Duck fans to quick to want change after a disasterous downward trend, or is Stanford to slow?
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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

Post by rockthief »

I am not sure being the home team matters anymore for Oregon. We once, not that long ago, had the nation's longest home winning streak. I really do not know what to say anymore. It's all been said and is being repeated daily on forums, in saloons, on commutes, on the street, all over the place. Be rid of the coaches who have destroyed this once elite football team.
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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

Post by pezsez1 »

Valid point, so are Duck fans to quick to want change after a disasterous downward trend, or is Stanford to slow?
At this point in time, I don't think it's unusual or unwarranted for Duck fans to want change. I do think some fans definitely jumped the gun, and I do think Shaw is getting much less criticism because his team was fortunate enough to get some favorable results -- and, let's face it, winning makes people feel better. Our conversation about Oregon's program would be profoundly different right now had either VA not broken his finger or had we won a couple of our close games.

The bigger issue now is remaining clear-headed about what's actually best for the team.

Me, personally, I'm at the point where if the program dumped Helfrich in favor of an absolute home-run hire, then in no way would I think negatively of the program for taking such an action. At the same time, Oregon's future is undeniably bright on the offensive side of the ball, and many of our defensive woes would likely be stemmed with opportunistic recruiting of the JC ranks as a stopgap.

I really don't think it's a matter of "too quick" or "too slow." But when arguing changes with potentially seismic consequences -- and considering that coaching changes usually don't bring quick results (and often lead to temporarily worse results) -- I definitely trend toward "pro-careful" perspectives.
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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

Post by OregonFan4Life »

Pez, you're a great poster, but damn your excuses for Helf don't ever stop! The fact is, VA got hurt, we didn't win the PAC-12, we had a defense that allowed VA to get injured in the 4th quarter against an FCS opponent in Autzen, and no backup plan at all and no QB development. In addition, it doesn't matter if how close Oregon was to winning some games, the fact is they lost those games, there is no way around it. Teams with solid leadership find ways to win close games, not ways to lose them when they're very winnable. I respect that you have more support for Helf than most duck fans, but these excuses you make for him are just excuses, not facts. Truly good coaches can handle a QB injury, doesn't get blown out at home frequently, doesn't lose close games constantly.


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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

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OregonFan4Life wrote:Pez, you're a great poster, but damn your excuses for Helf don't ever stop! The fact is, VA got hurt, we didn't win the PAC-12, we had a defense that allowed VA to get injured in the 4th quarter against an FCS opponent in Autzen, and no backup plan at all and no QB development. In addition, it doesn't matter if how close Oregon was to winning some games, the fact is they lost those games, there is no way around it. Teams with solid leadership find ways to win close games, not ways to lose them when they're very winnable. I respect that you have more support for Helf than most duck fans, but these excuses you make for him are just excuses, not facts. Truly good coaches can handle a QB injury, doesn't get blown out at home frequently, doesn't lose close games constantly.


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I agree with most of what Pez said. I am on the fence with the firing of Helf this year. That being said you are absolutely right about the lack of player development especially at qb. And the way we lose close games. Personally I'm at the point where if they kept Helf I would live with it (not that I have a choice) and try to stay positive for at least next year. But if they fired him I wouldn't be upset at all.
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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

Post by Greenblood »

There were, I think, some good signs on the defensive side of the ball vs. Cal. Along with allowing only 11 points in the second half after giving up 31 in the first, for the whole game the Ducks held the Bears to nearly a full yard under their per-play average on offense going into the game. I think there are some things to feel good about and build on there, and I hope the Ducks play with some more confidence this week.
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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

Post by pezsez1 »

Pez, you're a great poster, but damn your excuses for Helf don't ever stop!
Excuses? Hardly. Everything I wrote about actually happened.

By your logic, I could accuse you of just making excuses to fire the coaches. (Example: Now that we've seen Stanford without Kevin Hogan, do you think Stanford really wins the conference last year with Hogan either out or gimpy for three of its toughest games?) But the things you wrote about also happened, so that would be just as off-base.
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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

Post by dthomas=ddixon »

Does it really matter what is going on at Furd? Shaw and Helf have had similar tenures both the programs are vastly different otherwise.

Do Stanford football fans even exist? Outside of a football game involving Furd, I've never seen one in real life. The purpose of their big facility remodel was to SHRINK their stadium ha.
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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

Post by buckmarkduck »

Shaw has the luxury of being the Stanford coach. Which means they have 5 fans, so that has to play into why he isn't getting any heat. They are just happy to go bowling every year.
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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

Post by UOducksTK1 »

Pez, you ignored my post. :(

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Re: Arizona State @ Oregon (Sat 2 PM, Pac-12 Networks)

Post by QuackininBama »

OregonFan4Life wrote:Pez, you're a great poster, but damn your excuses for Helf don't ever stop!
Agree. Pez, your one of my favorite posters but damn bro, how many record of futility have to be set before you figure out Helf is a great guy, just not a good coach at this level? (Double post, sorry, keyboard tripped out)
Last edited by QuackininBama on Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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