Fire Taggart

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Fire taggart

Yes
7
12%
No
53
88%
 
Total votes: 60
duck58
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by duck58 »

I'm with those who think this is stupid. But my thoughts. As mentioned, Before Hebert was injured we were top 5 offense. We scored 35 on ASU. ASU has very good defense; held UW to 7 pts. and Utah to a FG until a meaningless TD in garbage time. Take away the 3 early losses and I believe now ASU is probably the best team in PAC-12. Our problem is what has plagued us in the past; no backup QB with the talent or maturity to step in. Also a lot of young men on defense, improving but needs more. Both will get better. Shough comes in next yr, Could get Johnson(2019), Definitely get WT jr. in 2020. Lenzy's brother will likely follow him and he wants to play DEFENSE.(2020). They both should. Get the big OL from Utah and his big/ little brother LB will likely follow.(2020). 2019 and 2020 should be big recruiting yrs as well. We will improve each year and by 2019 we will be competing for PAC-12 title again. I just want at least 2 more wins to get a bowl this yr so our young men can get the extra practice. My opinion.
buckmarkduck
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by buckmarkduck »

I think we'll land Carson Cota in 2021, unlike Chase he seems to really like UO. He'll already 6'3 as a Fr in HS and will be a 4* LB by then. Already has offers from UO and UCLA.
BlackbirdDuck
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by BlackbirdDuck »

Regarding the Sheldon comment - I heard it from a very reliable person who witnessed the event, this person is a UO Alumnus, he played baseball years ago for the Ducks and has been part of the Eugene sports community for years. He has no reason to make this report up.
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by buckmarkduck »

I know I called bs on the WT comment at Sheldon, but I will say all summer I hear WTII out played Johnson. That said I still stand by that it's much easier to quietly put your kid in another school like Marist, and not come out looking like an ass. WT seems to make all the right steps in regards to recruiting and hiring coaches, and if there was any truth to this story it would piss off one of his coaches, who could easily get another job, and piss off a potential QB commit next year. So I doubt the story
Groundswell
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by Groundswell »

buckmarkduck wrote:I know I called bs on the WT comment at Sheldon, but I will say all summer I hear WTII out played Johnson. That said I still stand by that it's much easier to quietly put your kid in another school like Marist, and not come out looking like an ass. WT seems to make all the right steps in regards to recruiting and hiring coaches, and if there was any truth to this story it would piss off one of his coaches, who could easily get another job, and piss off a potential QB commit next year. So I doubt the story
I saw that rumor, but kinda dismissed it once the season started with Johnson as starter. How has Willie's boy been doing against JV? If he's better than Johnson, he should be tearing it up and breaking records every week.

If any of this is true, and Willie said this in front of Sheldon players, I have to wonder why Johnson would commit to play for him.
GrandpaDuck
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by GrandpaDuck »

ifuwant2 wrote:
buckmarkduck wrote:I know I called bs on the WT comment at Sheldon, but I will say all summer I hear WTII out played Johnson. That said I still stand by that it's much easier to quietly put your kid in another school like Marist, and not come out looking like an ass. WT seems to make all the right steps in regards to recruiting and hiring coaches, and if there was any truth to this story it would piss off one of his coaches, who could easily get another job, and piss off a potential QB commit next year. So I doubt the story
I saw that rumor, but kinda dismissed it once the season started with Johnson as starter. How has Willie's boy been doing against JV? If he's better than Johnson, he should be tearing it up and breaking records every week.

If any of this is true, and Willie said this in front of Sheldon players, I have to wonder why Johnson would commit to play for him.
There are HUDL highlights from all WTII's JV games and MJII's varsity games.
Groundswell
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by Groundswell »

GrandpaDuck wrote:
ifuwant2 wrote:
buckmarkduck wrote:I know I called bs on the WT comment at Sheldon, but I will say all summer I hear WTII out played Johnson. That said I still stand by that it's much easier to quietly put your kid in another school like Marist, and not come out looking like an ass. WT seems to make all the right steps in regards to recruiting and hiring coaches, and if there was any truth to this story it would piss off one of his coaches, who could easily get another job, and piss off a potential QB commit next year. So I doubt the story
I saw that rumor, but kinda dismissed it once the season started with Johnson as starter. How has Willie's boy been doing against JV? If he's better than Johnson, he should be tearing it up and breaking records every week.

If any of this is true, and Willie said this in front of Sheldon players, I have to wonder why Johnson would commit to play for him.
There are HUDL highlights from all WTII's JV games and MJII's varsity games.
Yeah, from what I can see, the two aren't even in the same zip code right now. Maybe Taggart Jr. makes good decisions, but physical talent isn't even close.
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by UOducksTK1 »

Love to see any coach win the Burmeister right now.

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Phenom
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by Phenom »

BTW, USF, the program that Taggart built up is doing great. He knows what he's doing...just give him time.
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by Handsome Dan »

Phenom wrote:BTW, USF, the program that Taggart built up is doing great. He knows what he's doing...just give him time.
He does know what he's doing at that level, but if we are being honest, it is more difficult to coach at the P5 level of resources vs. the G5 level of resources. Obviously the G5 and P5 are close enough that a well run G5 program can compete with a P5 program, but there is still a stark difference in the average level of coaching competency and expectations at the P5 level vs. the G5 level - things that can cause an otherwise competent person to flounder.

There is also the matter that success at the G5 level can sometimes be achieved mostly through a talent advantage, which means that a coach with a mediocre intellectual/theoretical understanding of football can be successful at the G5 level if they are exceptional at acquiring talent and exceptional at getting that talent to perform at its full potential (i.e motivation). The problem here is that it is difficult to amass a talent advantage against the best P5 programs that is sufficient to compensate for an meaningfully inferior intellectual/theoretical understanding of the game (and particularly so at a place like Oregon), which means that a G5 coach who is good at acquiring talent and good at motivating it but doesn't have an adequate intellectual/theoretical understanding of the game can run into problems at the P5 level if they are unable to find a way to address that deficiency, either through increasing their knowledge of the game or finding subordinates who fill in that "gap" in their own capabilities. Willie Taggart was an assistant of Jim Harbaugh before starting his head coaching career in 2010, and that time is reflected in what we know of him: we can say with near certainty based on his time as USF and his year at Oregon that he is very good at recruiting players and very good at managing their emotional needs as a leader figure (i.e. getting them to perform in practice and in games), but he is also a coach that adhered to the basic Harbaugh power offense as recently as 2013 and a ran more simplistic (i.e QB run heavy) version of the spread after he adopted it at USF. I'm not saying that Willie Taggart is stupid, but I think it's fair to say that his understanding of predominant modern spread principles is still developing, and that means that there is a chance he doesn't ever understand them well enough to have the amount of control over the offense that he has currently given himself.

I think that people are basing their concerns on both of these possibilities, and if they are over inclined to worry about the state of the program, they are more quickly going to jump to those negative conclusions. I think there is validity to acknowledging those possibilities, and that there are things he is not doing as well as he could be, but I think that overall you're right: there are enough encouraging signs regarding Taggart's ability to learn and ability to sacrifice his ego that it is reasonable to be optimistic that he will eventually be able to handle the pressure of the job, advance his understanding of the spread enough to at least run it adequately, and have the emotional fortitude necessary to eventually cede control of the offense to a "guru" type if it's best for the team. You never know for sure until you've seen it, of course, but the volume of positive evidence definitely supports not rushing to a negative conclusion.
Lightning Strikes
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by Lightning Strikes »

People who vote yes are out their your mind on this one.
rockthief
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by rockthief »

Lightning Strikes wrote:People who vote yes are out their your mind on this one.
Explain what is do be done with the level of talent on this team. A few games in and you want the coach gone? Makes no sense. None.
Duckattack7
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by Duckattack7 »

Handsome Dan wrote:
Phenom wrote:BTW, USF, the program that Taggart built up is doing great. He knows what he's doing...just give him time.
He does know what he's doing at that level, but if we are being honest, it is more difficult to coach at the P5 level of resources vs. the G5 level of resources. Obviously the G5 and P5 are close enough that a well run G5 program can compete with a P5 program, but there is still a stark difference in the average level of coaching competency and expectations at the P5 level vs. the G5 level - things that can cause an otherwise competent person to flounder.

There is also the matter that success at the G5 level can sometimes be achieved mostly through a talent advantage, which means that a coach with a mediocre intellectual/theoretical understanding of football can be successful at the G5 level if they are exceptional at acquiring talent and exceptional at getting that talent to perform at its full potential (i.e motivation). The problem here is that it is difficult to amass a talent advantage against the best P5 programs that is sufficient to compensate for an meaningfully inferior intellectual/theoretical understanding of the game (and particularly so at a place like Oregon), which means that a G5 coach who is good at acquiring talent and good at motivating it but doesn't have an adequate intellectual/theoretical understanding of the game can run into problems at the P5 level if they are unable to find a way to address that deficiency, either through increasing their knowledge of the game or finding subordinates who fill in that "gap" in their own capabilities. Willie Taggart was an assistant of Jim Harbaugh before starting his head coaching career in 2010, and that time is reflected in what we know of him: we can say with near certainty based on his time as USF and his year at Oregon that he is very good at recruiting players and very good at managing their emotional needs as a leader figure (i.e. getting them to perform in practice and in games), but he is also a coach that adhered to the basic Harbaugh power offense as recently as 2013 and a ran more simplistic (i.e QB run heavy) version of the spread after he adopted it at USF. I'm not saying that Willie Taggart is stupid, but I think it's fair to say that his understanding of predominant modern spread principles is still developing, and that means that there is a chance he doesn't ever understand them well enough to have the amount of control over the offense that he has currently given himself.

I think that people are basing their concerns on both of these possibilities, and if they are over inclined to worry about the state of the program, they are more quickly going to jump to those negative conclusions. I think there is validity to acknowledging those possibilities, and that there are things he is not doing as well as he could be, but I think that overall you're right: there are enough encouraging signs regarding Taggart's ability to learn and ability to sacrifice his ego that it is reasonable to be optimistic that he will eventually be able to handle the pressure of the job, advance his understanding of the spread enough to at least run it adequately, and have the emotional fortitude necessary to eventually cede control of the offense to a "guru" type if it's best for the team. You never know for sure until you've seen it, of course, but the volume of positive evidence definitely supports not rushing to a negative conclusion.
I hear you here man and this is a good break down of the situation. I just feel that if he can get us top 10 classes with Top 5 potential we will be in good shape. Imagine if the flashes of good offense we see get filled with top flight guys across the board? I think the biggest problem with the offense is penaltys which is easy to fix with time in the system. Let's be real I don't think outside of TBJ, Dillion, Mitchell, Royce and Charles we have a guy rated a 4* or better. We lack play making at WR and our offensive line was already undersized and lower rated guys coming in that just flat out don't have the physical tools yet to run what WT and Cristobal want to run and we still have pretty good success. On the other hand there have been some pretty bad play calling on situational downs that does draw concern like 3rd and 5 run for 3 then the exact same play call with zero tempo on 4th and 1 with 2 LBs pressing the A gap. Call a damn timeout and draw something up or punt the ball, Or taking the air out the ball (we all know Altman is notorious for this) and completely take the offense out the game. I'm going to be the fan that has willie's back until the writing is on the wall because I think this will take 2-3 years to get back to where everyone expects.
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Handsome Dan
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by Handsome Dan »

Oh yes, I agree with you: if he maintains the recruiting level he's currently shown, maintains the level of assistant coaching talent he's currently assembled, and manages to increase the ratio of good flashes to missteps in offensive execution (something that comes in part with players understanding the offense better and Taggart understanding the principles of the offense better), the team will be in contention for a Pac-12 title by 2019. I was just trying to emphasize the importance of offensive execution to achieving the kinds of seasons they had during the peak under Chip and Mariota; for a program with top ten recruiting classes, that's the difference between 8-4/9-3, and 12-1. But like you said, he needs time to get there, nothing suggests he can't.
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Re: Fire Taggart

Post by buckmarkduck »

And you can't really judge a coach until year 3, good or bad. That's usually when it's mostly their system and players. Just looking at the D, I've got no question that our D in 2 years will be the top in the conference. Right now we are 4th ( let that sink in) in the confrence playing 8 Fr and So.
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