The Pistol, Mastro & Arroyo

Moderators: greenyellow, Autzenoise, UOducksTK1

Post Reply
User avatar
Duckenstein
Freshman
Posts: 1432
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:43 pm

The Pistol, Mastro & Arroyo

Post by Duckenstein »

I will defer to the resident experts on this topic, but I feel like the pistol formation that Mastro and Arroyo installed is a big dud.

Offensive stats are way down this year compared to last year when you account for the dire personnel situation in 2017 (and obviously down from years past).

Things did seem to work fairly well up to the UW game. We were able to run the ball then, we were pretty healthy.

But even early on, the offense often sputtered and relied on big plays by Herbert.

Now, i fully realize that the talent isn't there, the depth isn't there.

But they looked really good last week when they abandoned the pistol formation.

I think it's time to throw out the pistol attack, let the RBs line up lateral to the QB.

I don't know if Mastro had his way in Pullman, but as far as I know, neither him nor arroyo has a proven track record of success with their versions of a pistol/pro set type of offense.
balzun
One Star Recruit
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:04 pm

Re: The Pistol, Mastro & Arroyo

Post by balzun »

I'm no expert either but I thought the pistol's success as a running formation was largely due to the threat of the QB keeping the ball instead of handing it off. Cristobal seems dead set of using an Alabama pro style QB of old. I sure hope that he realizes that Saban did away with that three years ago when they finally got with the times and started valuing dual threat quarterbacks. Every time I watch Bama destroy another team I (like everyone else I'm sure) wonder what things would be like if we had gone after Tua. But that is a whole other conversation...

Herbert most definitely can run the ball and while I certainly value his health and would rather he not run as much as say Masoli did, we need to run him more to keep defenses accounting for that aspect of the offense. Maybe I'm living in the past but a 20 yard run by Mariota tended to open things up for the running back not to mention the passing game as well.
User avatar
greenyellow
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35683
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:54 pm
Location: Eugene, OR

Re: The Pistol, Mastro & Arroyo

Post by greenyellow »

Duckenstein wrote:I will defer to the resident experts on this topic, but I feel like the pistol formation that Mastro and Arroyo installed is a big dud.

Offensive stats are way down this year compared to last year when you account for the dire personnel situation in 2017 (and obviously down from years past).

Things did seem to work fairly well up to the UW game. We were able to run the ball then, we were pretty healthy.

But even early on, the offense often sputtered and relied on big plays by Herbert.

Now, i fully realize that the talent isn't there, the depth isn't there.

But they looked really good last week when they abandoned the pistol formation.

I think it's time to throw out the pistol attack, let the RBs line up lateral to the QB.

I don't know if Mastro had his way in Pullman, but as far as I know, neither him nor arroyo has a proven track record of success with their versions of a pistol/pro set type of offense.
While he was the RB coach at Oklahoma State, they used both the shotgun and the pistol so it's not like it's completely foreign to Arroyo. It could just be he's running a version of the pistol (there are multiple depths the QBs and RBs can line up at) that isn't optimal to the talent on hand. To me, it still feels like the staff is tinkering with things due to all the depth and talent issues.
Image
User avatar
GoDucksTroll
Sophomore
Posts: 1743
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:34 am

Re: The Pistol, Mastro & Arroyo

Post by GoDucksTroll »

I was just thinking about this last night: the pistol seems to be much more effective when there is a threat of QB run.

Cristobal has been adamant about us not "being a QB running operation."

I realize the need to protect Herbert, but is this a knee jerk reaction to last year's QB injury crisis? That's kind of what it feels like, considering even Alabama has embraced the dual threat QB model.

Hythlotoday1 on Addicted To Quack and Reddit did a great of explaining what they want to do with the run game: get 4ish yards on first down. A more conservative approach to make the other downs more manageable. Considering once in a while you can get an explosion run play with a defensive mistake, or a great play by the RB, or fantastic blocking.

The goal is to reduce those 2nd and 13 situations you can wind up with from shotgun runs, while sacrificing the big gash plays.

It was semi-working at the start of the season. When the OL was at full strength, and before other teams had a real chance to get tape on the new offense. Here are my hypotheses:

* Our RBs just aren't that good. CJ Verdell is okay, but inconsistent, doesn't have top end speed, and gets banged up. Travis Dye is similar, maybe a little faster. TBJ is MIA and should probably have been getting more carries if he wasn't hurt. Are Sean Dollars and Jayvaun Wilson going to be an upgrade? Is Darrian Felix going to get healthy and stay in Eugene? We'll see, but I think this type of offense needs a great RB and we just don't have one.

* The OL getting banged up has hurt. Sewell is more important than I realized. One fallen domino shouldn't have had such a huge impact, but the shuffling has made it so I don't see the big holes getting opened up like they were against Cal, Washington, etc.

* Our WRs other than Dillon Mitchell are so bad. We knew it would be a weakness, but THIS BAD? I rewatched the Utah game last night, and these guys are not getting open. Throughout the year they've had major drop issues. Johnny Johnson's drop against Wazzu during the second half rally was inexcusable. Jaylon Redd has kind of disappeared from the offense after his hot start. At least there is help on the way in the form of recruits, and hopefully Addison or Crocker can be a factor next year.

* Our TEs are not good blockers in this scheme, and I expected more out of Breeland this season.

At times this offense can get going at times. But the first three possessions of the past few games are horrific.
Duck24
Senior
Posts: 4747
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:36 am
Location: Portland, OR

Re: The Pistol, Mastro & Arroyo

Post by Duck24 »

I’d be curious what the offensive stats look like in the pistol vs out of shotgun this year. I have no evidence to back it up but I feel like so many of the big plays come out of shotgun.
User avatar
Duck07
All-American
Posts: 15952
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:36 am
Location: Parts Unknown

Re: The Pistol, Mastro & Arroyo

Post by Duck07 »

The idea of the pistol is great. The application of it has seen a grand total of 1 QB have success with it that I can think of and that was in a G5 conference. The idea of giving your RB an extra 2 yards depth to hit the hole faster has that element of Old-School run game but you have to then make sure the box isn't loaded by running quick hitters and play-action in addition to those QB keepers.

We either need to be running it more or not at all to make it worth our time. Since we haven't run it all that well, I say just get rid of it and focus on backs and OL that can run the same system together.
Image
User avatar
pezsez1
All Pac-12
Posts: 5643
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:30 pm
Location: RIP CITY

Re: The Pistol, Mastro & Arroyo

Post by pezsez1 »

I'm just not a fan of the pistol. It seems like an unnecessary gimmick that just doesn't result in any sustained advantage, and worse, it seems to add more complexity than benefit. Wasn't a fan when other teams ran it, and not a fan of us running it.
Willie Taggart is a dick.
User avatar
UOducksTK1
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 37592
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:28 pm
GM: Boston Celtics GM
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: The Pistol, Mastro & Arroyo

Post by UOducksTK1 »

balzun wrote:I'm no expert either but I thought the pistol's success as a running formation was largely due to the threat of the QB keeping the ball instead of handing it off. Cristobal seems dead set of using an Alabama pro style QB of old. I sure hope that he realizes that Saban did away with that three years ago when they finally got with the times and started valuing dual threat quarterbacks. Every time I watch Bama destroy another team I (like everyone else I'm sure) wonder what things would be like if we had gone after Tua. But that is a whole other conversation...

Herbert most definitely can run the ball and while I certainly value his health and would rather he not run as much as say Masoli did, we need to run him more to keep defenses accounting for that aspect of the offense. Maybe I'm living in the past but a 20 yard run by Mariota tended to open things up for the running back not to mention the passing game as well.
Herbert keeping the ball a little more often on zone reads would do wonders for this offense. Keeps the defense honest.

Do Not Fear. Isaiah 41:13
User avatar
greenyellow
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35683
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:54 pm
Location: Eugene, OR

Re: The Pistol, Mastro & Arroyo

Post by greenyellow »

It really would since the defense always crashes down on the RB since Herbert rarely, if ever, keeps the ball on read plays. It seems that after the Stanford game, he and/or the coaching staff have made it so he doesn't run it as often.
Image
duckfan22
Senior
Posts: 2699
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:48 pm

Re: The Pistol, Mastro & Arroyo

Post by duckfan22 »

greenyellow wrote:It really would since the defense always crashes down on the RB since Herbert rarely, if ever, keeps the ball on read plays. It seems that after the Stanford game, he and/or the coaching staff have made it so he doesn't run it as often.
Maybe the coaches dont have enough confidence in the backups should Herbert go down
so they are not willing to let him run as much.
GrantDuck
Senior
Posts: 2497
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:05 pm

Re: The Pistol, Mastro & Arroyo

Post by GrantDuck »

I like the idea in principle, just not in execution.

The reason I like the principle is that it's different than what most teams are running and it's also power football, which Cristobal wanted as a foundation and with the new breed of OL we're recruiting. Additionally, most football people I know say it's a fundamentally smart system.

In execution, we've had a lot of mis-matched personell for it(TBJ, Taj, OL for spread system).

My largest issue with it is still play-calling, but I could be wrong.
Post Reply