"The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by Joey
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"The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by Joey
This was mention in another thread and put all fans perspective of the the ducks out there. IMO Joey is dead on as is Fentress. Talking Duck video.
http://www.csnnw.com/ducks/joey-harring ... -all-about
http://www.csnnw.com/ducks/joey-harring ... -all-about
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Re: "The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by J
I agree with both Joey and Fentress in that fans needs to deal with bumps in the road better than they're doing now. Changes can be made in the off-season but to continually call for them after every game, even after wins that some fans don't think they won by enough, gets old and is counter-productive.
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Re: "The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by J
Finally got to watch this. Awesome vid, and Harrington is 100 percent on point.
It's not about "embracing the suck." It's about recognizing the amazing, solid foundation on which this program has been built, and not tearing down the whole building over a few broken windows.
It's not about "embracing the suck." It's about recognizing the amazing, solid foundation on which this program has been built, and not tearing down the whole building over a few broken windows.
Willie Taggart is a dick.
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Re: "The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by J
I was going to Oregon games before Joey was even born...
There is absolutely nothing wrong with holding the coaches accountable for poor performances IMO. It's completely normal for fans to complain about what's going on with the current state of Duck football.
Obviously, wanting a coach fired mid-season is ridiculous. But they definitely need a fire lit under their butts.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with holding the coaches accountable for poor performances IMO. It's completely normal for fans to complain about what's going on with the current state of Duck football.
Obviously, wanting a coach fired mid-season is ridiculous. But they definitely need a fire lit under their butts.
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Re: "The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by J
It'll all weed itself out naturally. Oregon can't get double digit wins every season. It'll eventually end. Once it does, all the fair-weather fans will disappear. I'm not too concerned about the new/fake fans. And yeah I get where Joey and the guys are coming from regarding those type of fans.
But... I feel like they are dumping a lot of us into their bucket of "bad fans". I've been an Oregon fan since about 2000. I pretty much came to terms that any season with more than 8 wins was a great success. But Chip helped us get over the top and become the best. Frankly, since Chip took over, no team has been better than us. So when you see Oregon play poorly in three of their first four games, and two of them against FCS opponents, yes it's very disappointing. What we've experience in four weeks hasn't happened since Dixon got hurt and we dropped the last three games of our 07 season.
And hey if Oregon becomes an average team, so be it. It won't change my love for the team. It's just a little hard to watch right now, and I feel like with different people running our defense, we wouldn't have half the problems. That's what's frustrating. I truly believe this is correctable. For argument's sake, let's assume that switching DP with a competent DC would solve the problem. But Oregon decides to sticks with him for a few years, and the Ducks take a dip the next couple years, and over the next decade fail to reach the heights we've experienced the last 7 years, wouldn't that be brutal?
It's just like a successful company. One CEO works hard and takes it to amazing places. Employees love him, customers love him, and overall the company is well run. CEO moves on, someone new comes in. New CEO doesn't know what he's doing, burns bridges, wastes money, etc., and eventually the company is not so great anymore and employees dislike working there.
It would just be sad to see. Now with that being said, there's a lot of hypothetical statements, but I'm just trying to illustrate a picture of why it's reasonable for even loyal/real Oregon fans to be concerned. It's not because we need our team to win to appreciate them, but it's because we have a really good thing going, and there's no real reason that it has end. And the fear of that ending because of a coach or whatever is not a good time.
And the Alabama comparison. Their last season with more than three losses is 2007. Since then, they have lost a game by more than two scores. They went 7-6 in 07 and 6-7 in 06, and never lost by more than two scores. You gotta go back to 2004 to see such a thing. So when Oregon loses by 42 points at home, and is the favorite to win, there's a very fundamental problem. We are too talented to be losing like. Good teams compete and play hard. They won't win every game, but they are at least well prepared and leave it all on the field. Oregon right now is lost.
Hope the Ducks get it together and smash all these hypothetical statements, but I think there's a justified reason for Oregon fans to be concerned and worried.
But... I feel like they are dumping a lot of us into their bucket of "bad fans". I've been an Oregon fan since about 2000. I pretty much came to terms that any season with more than 8 wins was a great success. But Chip helped us get over the top and become the best. Frankly, since Chip took over, no team has been better than us. So when you see Oregon play poorly in three of their first four games, and two of them against FCS opponents, yes it's very disappointing. What we've experience in four weeks hasn't happened since Dixon got hurt and we dropped the last three games of our 07 season.
And hey if Oregon becomes an average team, so be it. It won't change my love for the team. It's just a little hard to watch right now, and I feel like with different people running our defense, we wouldn't have half the problems. That's what's frustrating. I truly believe this is correctable. For argument's sake, let's assume that switching DP with a competent DC would solve the problem. But Oregon decides to sticks with him for a few years, and the Ducks take a dip the next couple years, and over the next decade fail to reach the heights we've experienced the last 7 years, wouldn't that be brutal?
It's just like a successful company. One CEO works hard and takes it to amazing places. Employees love him, customers love him, and overall the company is well run. CEO moves on, someone new comes in. New CEO doesn't know what he's doing, burns bridges, wastes money, etc., and eventually the company is not so great anymore and employees dislike working there.
It would just be sad to see. Now with that being said, there's a lot of hypothetical statements, but I'm just trying to illustrate a picture of why it's reasonable for even loyal/real Oregon fans to be concerned. It's not because we need our team to win to appreciate them, but it's because we have a really good thing going, and there's no real reason that it has end. And the fear of that ending because of a coach or whatever is not a good time.
And the Alabama comparison. Their last season with more than three losses is 2007. Since then, they have lost a game by more than two scores. They went 7-6 in 07 and 6-7 in 06, and never lost by more than two scores. You gotta go back to 2004 to see such a thing. So when Oregon loses by 42 points at home, and is the favorite to win, there's a very fundamental problem. We are too talented to be losing like. Good teams compete and play hard. They won't win every game, but they are at least well prepared and leave it all on the field. Oregon right now is lost.
Hope the Ducks get it together and smash all these hypothetical statements, but I think there's a justified reason for Oregon fans to be concerned and worried.
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Re: "The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by J
I am with you on this one. I have been watching Duck games since I started school in 1991 and we had a few pretty bad years before that Rose Bowl year.
Something changed with Kenny Wheaton's incoming class when I was in school. A bunch of those freshmen in that class stood up and decided they were not going to get beat down anymore. And although we have not had the best talent some years, I feel like we played with an edge though the Brooks, Bellotti, and Chip years. I guess what I am trying to say is that we often "out hearted" other teams with more talent. This is something that we are used to seeing and THAT is what Oregon football was built on.
Bottom line: There is no excuse for a beat down like that with the talent we have on the roster. That was not Oregon football.
Joey can call me whatever he wants. I will always watch and cheer for my Ducks, even if we are 2-10 at the end of this season. However, if something is not right, I will speak my mind.
Something changed with Kenny Wheaton's incoming class when I was in school. A bunch of those freshmen in that class stood up and decided they were not going to get beat down anymore. And although we have not had the best talent some years, I feel like we played with an edge though the Brooks, Bellotti, and Chip years. I guess what I am trying to say is that we often "out hearted" other teams with more talent. This is something that we are used to seeing and THAT is what Oregon football was built on.
Bottom line: There is no excuse for a beat down like that with the talent we have on the roster. That was not Oregon football.
Joey can call me whatever he wants. I will always watch and cheer for my Ducks, even if we are 2-10 at the end of this season. However, if something is not right, I will speak my mind.
fpsduck wrote:I was going to Oregon games before Joey was even born...
There is absolutely nothing wrong with holding the coaches accountable for poor performances IMO. It's completely normal for fans to complain about what's going on with the current state of Duck football.
Obviously, wanting a coach fired mid-season is ridiculous. But they definitely need a fire lit under their butts.
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Re: "The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by J
He's not saying you can't criticize the team when it loses; he's saying if your only solution to any problem is to fire somebody, then that's the wrong way to go about things, especially with how the program was built and the conditions that Oregon has to work with in comparison to other schools. Firings are never a guarantee for success so they should be used as a last-ditch effort to improve, not the go-to move.
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Re: "The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by J
He is absolutely correct there will be bumps, there will be down years, Oregon will never be a traditional power, things are just different in Eugene. That said, depending on how the season turns out, whether the Ducks win the rest of the games or lose the rest or split, whatever it is, at the end of the season, the coaches need to be looked at individually and rated on their units development and play on the field. Oregon could end up winning the rest of their games because the offense figures things out and does what it has done most of the last 7 years and bails out the defense by simply outscoring everyone, if that happens Pellum and maybe others shouldn't be let off the hook, the players deserve to be better prepped and developed for the next level. I get it the secondary is a very young group out there but that is where Pellum earns his money, scheming to make up the best you can for that lack of experience. Same with the offense, a QB you don't have confidence in and a new QB with an injury, you have to mix it up, be creative with all of that talent you have. This will be a down year, it happens with a young secondary and the loss of a once in a lifetime Heisman winning QB, the true, non bandwagon fans will stick around and the program will continue but its moving forward what the coaches do and any necessary changes that are made or not made will determine future success and whether Oregon slips back into mediocrity or gets back to being one of the big boys.
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Re: "The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by J
greenyellow wrote:He's not saying you can't criticize the team when it loses; he's saying if your only solution to any problem is to fire somebody, then that's the wrong way to go about things, especially with how the program was built and the conditions that Oregon has to work with in comparison to other schools. Firings are never a guarantee for success so they should be used as a last-ditch effort to improve, not the go-to move.
I agree, the firing of Pellum or anyone right now is not the answer. However, even if things somehow improve I am not sure Pellum should keep his job at the end of the season, I think new blood from outside is needed in order to liven things up a bit and get better on the defensive side of the ball so things can be more balanced in the future.
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Re: "The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by J
I'd agree that they do need to get a new perspective from the outside on defense since it doesn't seem like they've kept up on the latest trends or innovations in defending some of the newer offensive schemes. I'd also say that's not just an Oregon issue; it's an issue a lot of programs are facing since offensive production and innovation has occurred at a faster rate than defensive coordinators can come up with improvements.gofightingducks wrote:greenyellow wrote:He's not saying you can't criticize the team when it loses; he's saying if your only solution to any problem is to fire somebody, then that's the wrong way to go about things, especially with how the program was built and the conditions that Oregon has to work with in comparison to other schools. Firings are never a guarantee for success so they should be used as a last-ditch effort to improve, not the go-to move.
I agree, the firing of Pellum or anyone right now is not the answer. However, even if things somehow improve I am not sure Pellum should keep his job at the end of the season, I think new blood from outside is needed in order to liven things up a bit and get better on the defensive side of the ball so things can be more balanced in the future.
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Re: "The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by J
Only person I wouldn't mind being fired is DP, and that's not because of our Utah loss, but a larger sample of failure. And I think most people would have agreed with that sentiment even before the Utah game.greenyellow wrote:He's not saying you can't criticize the team when it loses; he's saying if your only solution to any problem is to fire somebody, then that's the wrong way to go about things, especially with how the program was built and the conditions that Oregon has to work with in comparison to other schools. Firings are never a guarantee for success so they should be used as a last-ditch effort to improve, not the go-to move.
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Re: "The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by J
I don't agree with anything he said about Osbourne or about Pellum. I know for a fact Osborne was allowed to leave by Bellotti, and MB didn't give TO his bonus when he left. It was later fixed to a point, but ASU fired him for a reason, and his units have been the biggest reason we didn't win a title under Chip, and last week Utah just showed us again how our special teams continue to get avg at best coaching.
Pellum, I like the guy and it sucks he as handed a job he wasn't prepared to handle, but at this point I don't see how you keep a guy ho has guided the 82nd ranked unit in 2014 and is dead last this year. Regardless of how you view UO football, it's completely unexceptable to have that bad of D.
Pellum, I like the guy and it sucks he as handed a job he wasn't prepared to handle, but at this point I don't see how you keep a guy ho has guided the 82nd ranked unit in 2014 and is dead last this year. Regardless of how you view UO football, it's completely unexceptable to have that bad of D.
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Re: "The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by J
I thought our special teams has been pretty solid up to the Utah game. Before the Utah game, "Arizona was the last team to return a punt for a TD on Nov. 15, 2007. UO’s last opponent to score on a kickoff return was Arizona State on Sept. 30, 2006 - a span of 119 games."buckmarkduck wrote:I don't agree with anything he said about Osbourne or about Pellum. I know for a fact Osborne was allowed to leave by Bellotti, and MB didn't give TO his bonus when he left. It was later fixed to a point, but ASU fired him for a reason, and his units have been the biggest reason we didn't win a title under Chip, and last week Utah just showed us again how our special teams continue to get avg at best coaching.
Pellum, I like the guy and it sucks he as handed a job he wasn't prepared to handle, but at this point I don't see how you keep a guy ho has guided the 82nd ranked unit in 2014 and is dead last this year. Regardless of how you view UO football, it's completely unexceptable to have that bad of D.
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Re: "The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by J
Punting, kicking and FG are part of special teams also. Our coverage and return guys are fine, but our kickers have been poor for years.
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Re: "The argument" put in perspective, dead on analyses by J
The problem that Oregon has had with special teams has been more with the kickers and punters, not the coverage and return teams. I think a big reason for that is there's not really a kicking specialist among the assistants, GAs, or volunteer assistants. Bellotti coached them while he was HC, Osbourne did so under Chip, and it seems that Radcliffe is now the kicking coach, which is odd since he's not known as a kicking coach.