If Trump is found guilty...

[dd10snoop28]

There are three levels of debate/discussion.

#1 - debates over peoples/personalities ("Trump is mean/rude" or "I hate Desantis")
#2 - debates over groups/parties/factions ("republicans are *fill in blank*")
#3 - debates over ideas/values/worldviews

I think a lot of Americans can't get past #1, and if they do, they are so blinded by peoples/personalities that it trickles into their worldviews.

I talked to a lady one time on the way to a duck/wazzu game in the Palouse. We were talking about various issues (mainly....gun control/2nd amendment). It was a decent conversation, and respectful. Quickly I learned that she didn't like Trump. I said I thought he has done a great job (my longer-form response is much more nuanced than this word). Any meaningful discourse ceased from that point on as she expressed in no uncertain terms her utter disdain for all that he is, and anyone that is associated with him.

The ultimate irony was that within the same conversation she expressed two contrasting sentiments: (1) she hated that the wazzu fans boo'ed the other team when they came on the field and said she always apologized to opposing fans whenever wazzu fans mistreated them, and (2) she wouldn't feel bad spitting on anyone who supported Trump.

[Duck07]

Partisan Politics for so long has done its job that a large number of people are not able to take in new information that disrupts their world view or any desire to have it questioned.

Most people also don't have the time it takes to be able to look into serious matters for themselves and without investigative journalism that pushes back on official narratives, we don't even have a proper news corps for the average person to be educated enough.

We don'thave real Representatives or Senators anymore. James Clapper lied to Ron Wyden's face and Wyden hasn't done a damn thing about it except to ignore it (and most people don't even know/care). You'd think for example that the segment of the population that IS Pro-Choice would be up in arms over the State Surveillance with Tech Company help in order to prosecute young women for terminating a pregnancy. You'd also think that on principle alone, that the Pro-Life segment of the population would also be up in arms over that type of Big Brother activity similar to the way that the ACLU were in Skokie v Illinois, despite the repugnant and vile beliefs.

I just finished watching Silo the other day and without spoiling anything, this feels like the "generator needs to be fixed" type moment and that the US needs to be operating from a point of leadership in order to correct these things that are wildly out of balance or else the whole system is going to be disrupted in a bad way. Fracturing global trade and alliances is not a healthy option for our comfortable "just-in-time" consumption methods.

[jBeavertonduck]

Let's be clear about what's in this federal indictment against him. The big issue with this indictment doesn't appear to be that Trump possessed classified information (which could also be said about Pence, Biden, Hillary's emails, etc) but that -- once questioned about it -- he not only refused to comply with the government but took deliberate actions to wrongfully hide/keep these docs for himself. (And he's also on tape admitting he showed them to people while admitting they were still classified and he shouldn't have them.)

Who is the only person in America that has ultimate declassification authority? Is it the Vice President? The Secretary of State?

Apparently, according to Pez, it’s some bureaucrat who works for the Presidential archives.

[jBeavertonduck]

If this helps, I won't even respond to/argue with folks who actually attempt to respond to the topic here. I don't have many Trump voters in my social circle and social media is crap for getting honest responses. I really want to know what's going through people's minds right now. I'd imagine that I'd be feeling pretty conflicted if I were in your position.

Are you familiar with the judge’s ruling in the Clinton “Sock Drawer” case?

[jBeavertonduck]

[
That is not true. There is a process that even the president must go through to declassify documents. Trump knows this, and he admitted as much in the recording noted in the indictment. He admits that he has secret documents that were not declassified simply because he took them out of the WH.

To believe the POTUS can simply declassify documents simply by saying it or thinking it... that's like in The Office, when Michael Scott tries to declare bankruptcy simply by yelling that he's declaring bankruptcy. That's just not how it works.

Try to find, in the charging documents, any mention of the recording you are referring to. That was another leak to influence public opinion.

I’ve asked you before what the procedure is for declassification. You still haven’t responded. Yet you keep claiming that there is one. If the President has sole ultimate authority to declassify, who does he answer to?

[Kimber45]

Pez is a leisure revolutionary actor.

Doesn't understand that when his particular revolution happens he'll be the first under the wheels. Or why.

Honestly appreciative to find some old school American liberalism on DucksAttack.

Props to dd10snoop. Carry on my wayward friend.