Ducks Attack Message Board Forum

lukeyrid13 wrote:I understand the point that mfr was stating though. As a Christian, it is infuriating that people compare a group like the westboro Baptist church to myself when they are so far removed from anything Christian or Christ like.

Thank you. That is exactly what I was trying to say. Many Muslims are having to defend themselves from being associated with ISIS and that is so wrong.

Tray Dub wrote:Honest question for you all: if you knew that the way to defeat ISIS was to get involved with a war that had a good chance, let's say 50%, of becoming as big as World War Two, would you want to do it?

This is a great question, and not too dissimilar to that asked of USA 85 years ago (in theory anyway). We were slow to react then too because it's very costly. I'm not sure I know the best answer here, but the problem is not going away., so I suspect the answer is self evident. History my repeat itself, yet again. Sad

MFRDuckFan wrote:

lukeyrid13 wrote:I understand the point that mfr was stating though. As a Christian, it is infuriating that people compare a group like the westboro Baptist church to myself when they are so far removed from anything Christian or Christ like.

Thank you. That is exactly what I was trying to say. Many Muslims are having to defend themselves from being associated with ISIS and that is so wrong.

I'm middle eastern (not Muslim) and understood what you were trying to say earlier. All religions have different takes/interpretations on what their book is trying to say. People read the same book of their religion and come to completely different conclusions with what it is they should do to follow. The extremists in every religion do not represent a majority of the followers of that religion which is why it is frustrating when people lump them all in together. Nobody considers Jews hateful because of a few crazy Hasidic followers who attack parades and stab innocent bystanders. Same with violence you sometimes see from the secular Christianity community here US. That doesn't represent the feelings/beliefs of a majority of the religion.

Even though I am not Muslim, my family is strict/actively practice (burka, pray 5 times a day, walk behind men etc) and I can assure you, they think what these asshats are doing in the name of their God is disgusting. Something my family will say when we discuss this topic is "That is not our God that they worship. Our God teaches us to be respectful and compassionate, not kill someone for having a different opinion." I haven't and won't read the Quran or any other book of religion so I don't know if that's true but anyone with a shred of common sense and 1/4 of a functioning brain knows that Muslim's do not support what IS or any other secular group is doing. The closest thing you'll see to them supporting violence is supporting the Palestinian's fight with Israel (completely separate issue) and even then, most of them want peace and find a way for a two state system to work.

I think everyone, regardless of religion, would support an effort to exterminate ISIS. I think we are rapidly approaching the point in time where ISIS is going to get what they want, which is a bunch of western militaries bringing the fight to them. I generally don't support war but this is a conflict that would have a great deal of support from me.

Undercover ops might be the best solution. Wht an ugly mess. No turning the cheek though.

lukeyrid13 wrote:http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran ... olence.htm

Here is a link to a litany of verses calling for violence against non believers.


One thing I wish though, was that Muslims spent more time as missionaries and trying to get converts if they feel so strongly than just immediately going into violent actions. Maybe I'm naive but I don't know of missionary work being commonplace in the Muslim community.

Geez said he did NOT come to bring peace to the earth either. Part of the "test" for those of faith is rising above those base instincts because you have a brain and the power to choose.

As others have said, extremism is a major problem. Those who pray to the God of Abraham attack those who pray to the God of Abraham because of the way they pray and serve the God of Abraham.

Warning: This will probably offend some but it's time for some thick skin anyways.

We've sat and sat and sat on ISIS/IL after we helped get them started and it's very perplexing because something is missing from the equation as to why they've been allowed to foment. Assad wasn't a bad guy originally, it was only a few years ago that we started to give a crap that he was assassinating (hashish'ing, lol) his citizens. The only thing I can ascertain from everything is that there is an element inside the Gov't that WANTS this to escalate. Want to know the easiest way to kickstart the economy? Start another war! I don't think the economy is the reason though as it seems to be more ethos related and I think that makes this is even more scary.

I've railed and railed against things/decisions the US govt has done over its lifetime but to start a counter insurgency/revolution against the West, I've always felt you must do so on an intellectual and moral high ground in order to win. Going out and attacking people at leisure who you target for their blind complicity to what their govt's do is absurd because those people don't understand the connection. If Paul Wolfowitz, one of the architects behind the Iraq invasion was blown up by a homicide bomber, the uproar wouldn't be anywhere as severe and in fact, you'd start getting real support for your cause. Vincent Bugliosi even made the case for prosecuting Dubya for Murder because he led the nation to war on a blatant lie. (Oh well, is the reaction from the US...)

Further, if we started to hold people like Lanny Breuer, Eric Holder and many others accountable for treasonous actions and violation of their oath's of office, the view of the US would change very rapidly as well. We have a system that is rampant with extortion, nepotism and cronyism and for us to truly understand the narrow viewpoints of those who go to extreme paths, we must understand what those criticisms are even if they operate from an equal or greater in-congruent manner.

I don't see any intellectual design to what these people are doing in Syria and elsewhere and from the beginning it never looked like it was a revolution of the people. They are not trying to form an Islamic State, of which there are literally many in the region. Oh, you don't want to live in Jordan or Iran? What about Saudi Arabia though? We don't ever want to talk about what the Saudi's do though because they've got some sweet oil fields and we must turn a blind eye to everything that goes on there.

Unfortunately this is a problem we created and we are handling it exactly the way we had planned it from the beginning.

Duck07 wrote:

lukeyrid13 wrote:http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran ... olence.htm

Here is a link to a litany of verses calling for violence against non believers.


One thing I wish though, was that Muslims spent more time as missionaries and trying to get converts if they feel so strongly than just immediately going into violent actions. Maybe I'm naive but I don't know of missionary work being commonplace in the Muslim community.

Geez said he did NOT come to bring peace to the earth either. Part of the "test" for those of faith is rising above those base instincts because you have a brain and the power to choose.

As others have said, extremism is a major problem. Those who pray to the God of Abraham attack those who pray to the God of Abraham because of the way they pray and serve the God of Abraham.

Well, I'm sure if you know of the verse that Geez spoke then you would also know the context for which it was spoken. You should also include that.

It is probably quite obvious, but I don't understand the last sentence you wrote. Can you explain?

dd10snoop28 wrote:

Duck07 wrote:

lukeyrid13 wrote:http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran ... olence.htm

Here is a link to a litany of verses calling for violence against non believers.


One thing I wish though, was that Muslims spent more time as missionaries and trying to get converts if they feel so strongly than just immediately going into violent actions. Maybe I'm naive but I don't know of missionary work being commonplace in the Muslim community.

Geez said he did NOT come to bring peace to the earth either. Part of the "test" for those of faith is rising above those base instincts because you have a brain and the power to choose.

As others have said, extremism is a major problem. Those who pray to the God of Abraham attack those who pray to the God of Abraham because of the way they pray and serve the God of Abraham.

Well, I'm sure if you know of the verse that Geez spoke then you would also know the context for which it was spoken. You should also include that.

It is probably quite obvious, but I don't understand the last sentence you wrote. Can you explain?

Well the Gospel of Thomas is even better with that phrase and it's repeated in numerous ways but that's another discussion.

As for Abraham, Jews, Christians and Muslims all pray to his God. Jews don't believe that Geez was the son of God and Muslims believe that he was merely a minor prophet and that Mohammed came to unite everyone back under God's glory as there were too many offshoots and sects not just from the Jews but also the Christians . Yet the moment he's gone its back to division. That really is the secret meaning behind that saying. We are supposed to rise above the strife.

I think the whole situation stinks. It's a shame some peeps have no respect for others lives.

^ gospel of Thomas isn't in bible fwiw. I believe it's part of the Gnostic texts.

lukeyrid13 wrote:^ gospel of Thomas isn't in bible fwiw. I believe it's part of the Gnostic texts.

It is, and the establishment doesn't like it one bit but it predates the council of nicea by ~ 150 years. It could even be considered heretical because Geez tells them to follow 'James the just' and not Paul, of whom they have two distinct messages. One merely of belief, the other of action. James preached that even the devil believes in the Lord, therefore belief alone is not enough without action.

'Faith without works is dead'. James 2.

I'm genuinely curious at what you ascertain that Geez said not follow Paul? Geez died about 20 years before Paul began his service.

lukeyrid13 wrote:'Faith without works is dead'. James 2.

I'm genuinely curious at what you ascertain that Geez said not follow Paul? Geez died about 20 years before Paul began his service.

I phrased that poorly, as I didn't mean at all that he said not to follow Paul, so much as to allude to the direction of the earliest movements after his death in comparison to another version.

Duck07 wrote:Warning: This will probably offend some but it's time for some thick skin anyways.

We've sat and sat and sat on ISIS/IL after we helped get them started and it's very perplexing because something is missing from the equation as to why they've been allowed to foment. Assad wasn't a bad guy originally, it was only a few years ago that we started to give a crap that he was assassinating (hashish'ing, lol) his citizens. The only thing I can ascertain from everything is that there is an element inside the Gov't that WANTS this to escalate. Want to know the easiest way to kickstart the economy? Start another war! I don't think the economy is the reason though as it seems to be more ethos related and I think that makes this is even more scary.

I've railed and railed against things/decisions the US govt has done over its lifetime but to start a counter insurgency/revolution against the West, I've always felt you must do so on an intellectual and moral high ground in order to win. Going out and attacking people at leisure who you target for their blind complicity to what their govt's do is absurd because those people don't understand the connection. If Paul Wolfowitz, one of the architects behind the Iraq invasion was blown up by a homicide bomber, the uproar wouldn't be anywhere as severe and in fact, you'd start getting real support for your cause. Vincent Bugliosi even made the case for prosecuting Dubya for Murder because he led the nation to war on a blatant lie. (Oh well, is the reaction from the US...)

Further, if we started to hold people like Lanny Breuer, Eric Holder and many others accountable for treasonous actions and violation of their oath's of office, the view of the US would change very rapidly as well. We have a system that is rampant with extortion, nepotism and cronyism and for us to truly understand the narrow viewpoints of those who go to extreme paths, we must understand what those criticisms are even if they operate from an equal or greater in-congruent manner.

I don't see any intellectual design to what these people are doing in Syria and elsewhere and from the beginning it never looked like it was a revolution of the people. They are not trying to form an Islamic State, of which there are literally many in the region. Oh, you don't want to live in Jordan or Iran? What about Saudi Arabia though? We don't ever want to talk about what the Saudi's do though because they've got some sweet oil fields and we must turn a blind eye to everything that goes on there.

Unfortunately this is a problem we created and we are handling it exactly the way we had planned it from the beginning.

++++++++++++++++++

I was browsing and this topic caught my eyes. The truth is America loves to make excuses. Well we just got out of Iraq and Afghanistan, what's the point of going into another war in the middle east is what every politician was saying. Between 2011-2013 50,000 anti-Syrian fighters were killed. By 2015 death toll of almost 250,000. In 2014 ISIS beheads a journalist and American politicians take notice of what's happening in Syria. America was one year too late. And then they play the blame game on the refugees, the Syrian government, Islam. But the facts are 200,000 lives were lost because Democrats and Republicans couldn't come together. And the only way to defeat ISIS is a ground war. Air strikes are not enough. Now I'm not saying it's America's job to supply the troops. It's everyone's job, Muslims, Christians, Jewish and etc etc. I'm not gonna lie, I didn't even know what ISIS was until summer of 2014. And I really find it disturbing that people blame Islam for it.

And what happen in Paris is terrible.