Pretty Sobering Account of What Transpired Last Season

[Duck07]

Meh, the DB technique the last few years became very porous, like Neal checked in once Pellum was promoted. At some point the 10 yards off combined with abysmal tackling or coverage isn't on Pellum and Hokes play calls but what's going on in positional work. I'd also argue the DL got just as much of a raw deal in our schemes the last few seasons as any other. How often were we all screaming for rushing 4 or even bringing a blitz in game threads and it never came? Expecting a one gap odd front to rush the passer without bringing four or more but talking about how difficult it is for the DBs and blaming the DL is disingenuous at best.

I do blame the d line. Part of running a four man, one gapping front is to get pressure on the qb. Before this year the last time that we really ran a 4 man front was the 2010 season. That year the starting front four combined for 17 sacks. This year the entire d line (not just the starting front four, but every single guy that took a snap on the d line) combined for 13.5 sacks. Now you say that you don't blame the coach? Why not? These guys either had terrible knowledge, technique, or skill to only have 13.5 sacks on the year. And all three of those things fall on the coach. The d line had the least amount of talent on the defense (outside of McDowell) and it showed in their play. They were by far the worst unit on the defense. It starts up front and trickles back. I don't care how good your linebackers are if your d line sucks. They will suck. That's why big guys are drafted first. Teams know where you have to build from.

Why is it that Aiken gets all of the blame for our DL and not Hoke in your opinion? I don't believe our 34 years under Aiken saw terrible DL play but you believe otherwise. You seem to have a bone to pick with Aiken alone for our defensive problems. I don't think 3 DL are going to win against 5 or 6 pass blockers all game and that was largely our scheme for bringing pressure until this year when we started to see just 2.

I'm not crying that Aiken is gone and should still be here, but I think it was clear that our play calls and lack of a defensive mindset hurt our DL more than Aiken did. For example I can already guess that when the DL is the best unit defensively next year you will say that is proof Aiken sucked, Joe is amazing and ignore the schematic differences between the two.

I'm an equal opportunity hater. The scheme has not been good. I do blame hoke and then Pellum for that. But still, when it comes down to it this game is all about talent. Aiken was supposed to be the primary recruiter for the defensive line. its not that he couldn't recruit, it's that he didn't recruit. Some of the guys that saw the field should never have gotten the opportunity to wear the green (and black and white and yellow and blue and etc).

Well compared to the new stuff nobody save Coach Cam could hold a candle to any of these guys as a recruiter so it's moot.

[Bigducker]

GTFO on Aiken. His unit was by far the best on Defense during his time here and attacking him for not being a Dog is a stupid pot shot that doesn't hold weight, especially with all of the other problems we had. Pellum, Neal and Hoke all deserve far more blame on the defense than Aiken does.

He was out a place in the 43 but nothing was wrong with the DL by and large when we were 1 gapping. Mark could have had an all star cast of coaches but we know now that he couldn't have led them. Don't blame a Major for the General's problems.

Totally Disagree, Aiken was probably the worst recruiter on the staff, and I think he was average at best as a D-line coach. After Coach Azz left ( Aliotti called him the best coach he’s ever been around) The d-line guys were still talking about coach Azz, a A YEAR AFTER HE LEFT!! That told me a lot about Aiken right there. The D-line has been terrible, absolutely terrible since coach Azz left!!

[EncinitasDuck]

Meh, the DB technique the last few years became very porous, like Neal checked in once Pellum was promoted. At some point the 10 yards off combined with abysmal tackling or coverage isn't on Pellum and Hokes play calls but what's going on in positional work. I'd also argue the DL got just as much of a raw deal in our schemes the last few seasons as any other. How often were we all screaming for rushing 4 or even bringing a blitz in game threads and it never came? Expecting a one gap odd front to rush the passer without bringing four or more but talking about how difficult it is for the DBs and blaming the DL is disingenuous at best.

I have to think that the 10 yds off soft coverage was because Neal thought his DBs would get beat off the line consistently and wouldn't be able to recover with the speedy receivers we face week in and week out. Let's face it we've had a drop off in talent on the corners in the couple past years (post IFO, Hill, etc) and our safeties haven't exactly been stellar either. That then begs the question had Neal checked out as far as developing the talent he brought in or did he just fail to bring in talent.

[z99clark11]

GTFO on Aiken. His unit was by far the best on Defense during his time here and attacking him for not being a Dog is a stupid pot shot that doesn't hold weight, especially with all of the other problems we had. Pellum, Neal and Hoke all deserve far more blame on the defense than Aiken does.

He was out a place in the 43 but nothing was wrong with the DL by and large when we were 1 gapping. Mark could have had an all star cast of coaches but we know now that he couldn't have led them. Don't blame a Major for the General's problems.

Totally Disagree, Aiken was probably the worst recruiter on the staff, and I think he was average at best as a D-line coach. After Coach Azz left ( Aliotti called him the best coach he’s ever been around) The d-line guys were still talking about coach Azz, a A YEAR AFTER HE LEFT!! That told me a lot about Aiken right there. The D-line has been terrible, absolutely terrible since coach Azz left!!

Shoot two years after Azz left DeForest was still talking to me about Azz and how much better of a coach he was. For anyone who knows anything about d line technique I just wish you could have watched a coach Azz practice vs an Aiken practice.

[Duck07]

GTFO on Aiken. His unit was by far the best on Defense during his time here and attacking him for not being a Dog is a stupid pot shot that doesn't hold weight, especially with all of the other problems we had. Pellum, Neal and Hoke all deserve far more blame on the defense than Aiken does.

He was out a place in the 43 but nothing was wrong with the DL by and large when we were 1 gapping. Mark could have had an all star cast of coaches but we know now that he couldn't have led them. Don't blame a Major for the General's problems.

Totally Disagree, Aiken was probably the worst recruiter on the staff, and I think he was average at best as a D-line coach. After Coach Azz left ( Aliotti called him the best coach he’s ever been around) The d-line guys were still talking about coach Azz, a A YEAR AFTER HE LEFT!! That told me a lot about Aiken right there. The D-line has been terrible, absolutely terrible since coach Azz left!!

So outside of recruiting, which has been bad under Helf period, you feel the DL was our worst unit the last three years? That our LB and DB were all vastly superior for what the scheme called for?

[TualatinDuck]

GTFO on Aiken. His unit was by far the best on Defense during his time here and attacking him for not being a Dog is a stupid pot shot that doesn't hold weight, especially with all of the other problems we had. Pellum, Neal and Hoke all deserve far more blame on the defense than Aiken does.

He was out a place in the 43 but nothing was wrong with the DL by and large when we were 1 gapping. Mark could have had an all star cast of coaches but we know now that he couldn't have led them. Don't blame a Major for the General's problems.

Totally Disagree, Aiken was probably the worst recruiter on the staff, and I think he was average at best as a D-line coach. After Coach Azz left ( Aliotti called him the best coach he’s ever been around) The d-line guys were still talking about coach Azz, a A YEAR AFTER HE LEFT!! That told me a lot about Aiken right there. The D-line has been terrible, absolutely terrible since coach Azz left!!

So outside of recruiting, which has been bad under Helf period, you feel the DL was our worst unit the last three years? That our LB and DB were all vastly superior for what the scheme called for?

LMAO! The best part of this is you have 0 idea who you are talking to. Thanks, this has been the most entertaining thread EVER! Thanks Zac for joining us.

[Bigducker]

GTFO on Aiken. His unit was by far the best on Defense during his time here and attacking him for not being a Dog is a stupid pot shot that doesn't hold weight, especially with all of the other problems we had. Pellum, Neal and Hoke all deserve far more blame on the defense than Aiken does.

He was out a place in the 43 but nothing was wrong with the DL by and large when we were 1 gapping. Mark could have had an all star cast of coaches but we know now that he couldn't have led them. Don't blame a Major for the General's problems.

Totally Disagree, Aiken was probably the worst recruiter on the staff, and I think he was average at best as a D-line coach. After Coach Azz left ( Aliotti called him the best coach he’s ever been around) The d-line guys were still talking about coach Azz, a A YEAR AFTER HE LEFT!! That told me a lot about Aiken right there. The D-line has been terrible, absolutely terrible since coach Azz left!!

So outside of recruiting, which has been bad under Helf period, you feel the DL was our worst unit the last three years? That our LB and DB were all vastly superior for what the scheme called for?

When you can’t put ANY pressure on a Qb and he has all day to throw the ball and pick the db’s apart OR take off running for a first down Uh, yeah.

If you have good Dline play, makes the LB's and the DB’s job much easier.

Helf wasn’t too bad at recruiting IMO, on Offensive side of the ball. Greatwood recruited some great young talent on the Oline, Cam did very well at RB’s, Lubick did a very good job with WR, Frost was NOT good as far as developing QB OR Wr’s.

The D coaches other than Neal were barely average to bad.

[Duck07]

GTFO on Aiken. His unit was by far the best on Defense during his time here and attacking him for not being a Dog is a stupid pot shot that doesn't hold weight, especially with all of the other problems we had. Pellum, Neal and Hoke all deserve far more blame on the defense than Aiken does.

He was out a place in the 43 but nothing was wrong with the DL by and large when we were 1 gapping. Mark could have had an all star cast of coaches but we know now that he couldn't have led them. Don't blame a Major for the General's problems.

Totally Disagree, Aiken was probably the worst recruiter on the staff, and I think he was average at best as a D-line coach. After Coach Azz left ( Aliotti called him the best coach he’s ever been around) The d-line guys were still talking about coach Azz, a A YEAR AFTER HE LEFT!! That told me a lot about Aiken right there. The D-line has been terrible, absolutely terrible since coach Azz left!!

So outside of recruiting, which has been bad under Helf period, you feel the DL was our worst unit the last three years? That our LB and DB were all vastly superior for what the scheme called for?

LMAO! The best part of this is you have 0 idea who you are talking to. Thanks, this has been the most entertaining thread EVER! Thanks Zac for joining us.

It's pretty obvious who he is and he's welcome to his opinion.

[pezsez1]

I have to think that the 10 yds off soft coverage was because Neal thought his DBs would get beat off the line consistently and wouldn't be able to recover with the speedy receivers we face week in and week out.

I still think the bigger problem was the D-line.

Look back to the 2015-16 season, and our corners were terrible (and wildly inexperienced) to start the year. However, they got better as the year went on, and they actually played pretty well down the stretch (until the second half of the Alamo Bowl, anyway).

The big difference was probably DeForest Buckner, who was actually able to get penetration and force opposing QBs to make quick throws.

This last season, our D-line was just awful. We couldn't get consistent pressure on anyone even when we blitzed. I think that's the biggest reason for the soft coverage and the apparent regressions among our cornerbacks. And I don't want to absolve the CBs of all accountability -- gotta control what you can control -- but we'd have been blown up for big play after big play had our CBs not lined up with big cushions. Our D-line was just that bad.

[TualatinDuck]

GTFO on Aiken. His unit was by far the best on Defense during his time here and attacking him for not being a Dog is a stupid pot shot that doesn't hold weight, especially with all of the other problems we had. Pellum, Neal and Hoke all deserve far more blame on the defense than Aiken does.

He was out a place in the 43 but nothing was wrong with the DL by and large when we were 1 gapping. Mark could have had an all star cast of coaches but we know now that he couldn't have led them. Don't blame a Major for the General's problems.

Totally Disagree, Aiken was probably the worst recruiter on the staff, and I think he was average at best as a D-line coach. After Coach Azz left ( Aliotti called him the best coach he’s ever been around) The d-line guys were still talking about coach Azz, a A YEAR AFTER HE LEFT!! That told me a lot about Aiken right there. The D-line has been terrible, absolutely terrible since coach Azz left!!

So outside of recruiting, which has been bad under Helf period, you feel the DL was our worst unit the last three years? That our LB and DB were all vastly superior for what the scheme called for?

LMAO! The best part of this is you have 0 idea who you are talking to. Thanks, this has been the most entertaining thread EVER! Thanks Zac for joining us.

It's pretty obvious who he is and he's welcome to his opinion.

So your going to tell us your right in your opinion vs a guy that actually played for Aiken and Azz? Someone that was actually on the team? Are you for real right now? If he actually is Zac which by conversation I think he is.

[Duck07]

For three plus years now every game thread has us all wishing the coaches would bring more than 3 on Defense. But by all means, blame those 3 DL for not being better at rushing the passer. If Joe and Leavitt can rush 3 all game long and be a top unit we will win a NC soon.

[Duck07]

GTFO on Aiken. His unit was by far the best on Defense during his time here and attacking him for not being a Dog is a stupid pot shot that doesn't hold weight, especially with all of the other problems we had. Pellum, Neal and Hoke all deserve far more blame on the defense than Aiken does.

He was out a place in the 43 but nothing was wrong with the DL by and large when we were 1 gapping. Mark could have had an all star cast of coaches but we know now that he couldn't have led them. Don't blame a Major for the General's problems.

Totally Disagree, Aiken was probably the worst recruiter on the staff, and I think he was average at best as a D-line coach. After Coach Azz left ( Aliotti called him the best coach he’s ever been around) The d-line guys were still talking about coach Azz, a A YEAR AFTER HE LEFT!! That told me a lot about Aiken right there. The D-line has been terrible, absolutely terrible since coach Azz left!!

So outside of recruiting, which has been bad under Helf period, you feel the DL was our worst unit the last three years? That our LB and DB were all vastly superior for what the scheme called for?

LMAO! The best part of this is you have 0 idea who you are talking to. Thanks, this has been the most entertaining thread EVER! Thanks Zac for joining us.

It's pretty obvious who he is and he's welcome to his opinion.

So your going to tell us your right in your opinion vs a guy that actually played for Aiken and Azz? Someone that was actually on the team? Are you for real right now? If he actually is Zac which by conversation I think he is.

If he is Zac Clark when did he play for Aiken? I've never said Aiken is a better coach than Azz, everyone knows we all prefer the beer drinker. This started with Zac taking what I felt was a pot shot at Aiken by critiquing his character for not being Azz and my response that Aiken was the least culpable of the defensive staff for the results on the field.

As to your assertion that I am unable to talk ball because he's a former player, well that is just stupid. So far you haven't contributed to the argument in any way beyond criticizing me for holding an opposite viewpoint. Why should I take you seriously when you are coming off as a Taylor's jersey chaser right now?

[greenyellow]

Can we all just agree that all the defensive coaches were to blame for the poor defensive showings the past few seasons?

[Duck07]

Can we all just agree that all the defensive coaches were to blame for the poor defensive showings the past few seasons?

No GY, because that wouldn't include the role the HC played, lol.

[greenyellow]

Can we all just agree that all the defensive coaches were to blame for the poor defensive showings the past few seasons?

No GY, because that wouldn't include the role the HC played, lol.

It just seems like we're getting overly focused on individual coaching blame instead of a systemic unit-wide dysfunction that was allowed to occur under Helf.