smithall wrote:Herbert is a capable runner. Nothing close to one of the best dual threat quarterbacks. Maybe a better passer that the top dual threat quarterbacks, but not an elusive runner.
Thinking back to last year, I can see Arroyo wanting to limit hits on Herbert and therefore limiting his running. How soon we all forget the uproar when he broke his collarbone last year and how people blasted Taggart for running him when we didn't have trusted backups.
Alan wrote:
Phenom wrote:Anyone who has actually analyzed the playcalling knows it's not an issue.
Oregon has one of the best dual threat QB's in the country
We can save the "one of the best dual threat quarterbacks" arguements for another thread. Herbert is no Tua or Murray, but he sure had plenty of hype for much of the season.......
smithall wrote:Herbert is a capable runner. Nothing close to one of the best dual threat quarterbacks. Maybe a better passer that the top dual threat quarterbacks, but not an elusive runner.
Thinking back to last year, I can see Arroyo wanting to limit hits on Herbert and therefore limiting his running. How soon we all forget the uproar when he broke his collarbone last year and how people blasted Taggart for running him when we didn't have trusted backups.
Alan wrote:
Phenom wrote:Anyone who has actually analyzed the playcalling knows it's not an issue.
Oregon has one of the best dual threat QB's in the country
We can save the "one of the best dual threat quarterbacks" arguements for another thread. Herbert is no Tua or Murray, but he sure had plenty of hype for much of the season.......
None of the hype centered around his legs. It's mainly his size/arm that builds up the hype as it's the prototype the NFL is looking for. That being said, his reads have been suspect. I'm not sure it's fair to blame Arroyo.
I wish they would scrap the pistol as only 1 team has never run it consistently with success, but I think Cristobal was a big part of the reason as to why they brought that in.
I saw numerous plays this season though where receivers were open and Herbert was locked in to Mitchell. That's not Arroyo's fault. I doubt he's coaching Herbert to stare at one guy and not go through progressions. I saw someone post that they wanted more of a QB coach for coordinator. Arroyo played QB, and has coached the position at many places, including the NFL. That's what we have now...
I think a lot of this season's issues stemmed from Herbert lacking trust in his wide receivers. Since, they didn't have the threat of a consistent passing game, opponents could focus on shutting down the running game. Hopefully the influx of talented receivers will lead to a more consistent passing game next year, and will in turn open up the running game.
droop10 wrote:
None of the hype centered around his legs. It's mainly his size/arm that builds up the hype as it's the prototype the NFL is looking for. That being said, his reads have been suspect. I'm not sure it's fair to blame Arroyo.
I wish they would scrap the pistol as only 1 team has never run it consistently with success, but I think Cristobal was a big part of the reason as to why they brought that in.
I saw numerous plays this season though where receivers were open and Herbert was locked in to Mitchell. That's not Arroyo's fault. I doubt he's coaching Herbert to stare at one guy and not go through progressions. I saw someone post that they wanted more of a QB coach for coordinator. Arroyo played QB, and has coached the position at many places, including the NFL. That's what we have now...
I think a lot of this season's issues stemmed from Herbert lacking trust in his wide receivers. Since, they didn't have the threat of a consistent passing game, opponents could focus on shutting down the running game. Hopefully the influx of talented receivers will lead to a more consistent passing game next year, and will in turn open up the running game.
You bring up a very good point that we are judging the Oregon version of Arroyo on a sample size of one. Last year Slick Willie called the plays while Arroyo coached QB's. Justin Herbert played like a Heisman contender, as he did the first of this year.
Was his regression a result of coaching, play calling, or simply a young man faltering under the weight of expectations from an entire fan base? To argue that JH is so good that it took a year and a half for Arroyo to ruin him doesn't make sense. My biggest complaint with play calling is the slow tempo. When Oregon runs plays in quick succession it seems they are successful more often than not.
droop10 wrote:
None of the hype centered around his legs. It's mainly his size/arm that builds up the hype as it's the prototype the NFL is looking for. That being said, his reads have been suspect. I'm not sure it's fair to blame Arroyo.
I wish they would scrap the pistol as only 1 team has never run it consistently with success, but I think Cristobal was a big part of the reason as to why they brought that in.
I saw numerous plays this season though where receivers were open and Herbert was locked in to Mitchell. That's not Arroyo's fault. I doubt he's coaching Herbert to stare at one guy and not go through progressions. I saw someone post that they wanted more of a QB coach for coordinator. Arroyo played QB, and has coached the position at many places, including the NFL. That's what we have now...
I think a lot of this season's issues stemmed from Herbert lacking trust in his wide receivers. Since, they didn't have the threat of a consistent passing game, opponents could focus on shutting down the running game. Hopefully the influx of talented receivers will lead to a more consistent passing game next year, and will in turn open up the running game.
You bring up a very good point that we are judging the Oregon version of Arroyo on a sample size of one. Last year Slick Willie called the plays while Arroyo coached QB's. Justin Herbert played like a Heisman contender, as he did the first of this year.
Was his regression a result of coaching, play calling, or simply a young man faltering under the weight of expectations from an entire fan base? To argue that JH is so good that it took a year and a half for Arroyo to ruin him doesn't make sense. My biggest complaint with play calling is the slow tempo. When Oregon runs plays in quick succession it seems they are successful more often than not.
I agree with the criticism, it was annoying seeing Oregon wait til 1 second on the play clock to snap the ball allowing opposing DT’s to get a jump on the play.
droop10 wrote:
None of the hype centered around his legs. It's mainly his size/arm that builds up the hype as it's the prototype the NFL is looking for. That being said, his reads have been suspect. I'm not sure it's fair to blame Arroyo.
I wish they would scrap the pistol as only 1 team has never run it consistently with success, but I think Cristobal was a big part of the reason as to why they brought that in.
I saw numerous plays this season though where receivers were open and Herbert was locked in to Mitchell. That's not Arroyo's fault. I doubt he's coaching Herbert to stare at one guy and not go through progressions. I saw someone post that they wanted more of a QB coach for coordinator. Arroyo played QB, and has coached the position at many places, including the NFL. That's what we have now...
I think a lot of this season's issues stemmed from Herbert lacking trust in his wide receivers. Since, they didn't have the threat of a consistent passing game, opponents could focus on shutting down the running game. Hopefully the influx of talented receivers will lead to a more consistent passing game next year, and will in turn open up the running game.
You bring up a very good point that we are judging the Oregon version of Arroyo on a sample size of one. Last year Slick Willie called the plays while Arroyo coached QB's. Justin Herbert played like a Heisman contender, as he did the first of this year.
Was his regression a result of coaching, play calling, or simply a young man faltering under the weight of expectations from an entire fan base? To argue that JH is so good that it took a year and a half for Arroyo to ruin him doesn't make sense. My biggest complaint with play calling is the slow tempo. When Oregon runs plays in quick succession it seems they are successful more often than not.
I'd have to say a lot of the regression has to be blamed on the inability to rely on his teammates to catch the ball. If you're throwing to a group of WR's who are only going to catch 1 out of 3 passes you're going to have a bad time. If dropped passes was a tracked stat I'm certain Oregon would be in the top 5, and definitely leading the PAC.
As for Arroyo remember his job is to build the offense into Mario's vision. Not an easy thing to do and it takes time to build the rapport and learn the flow of the offense. I'm not sure if he has experience with the Pistol style of offense so a lot of the hiccups should have been expected. Another thing to remember is that Cristobal said that he's against running the QB thus limiting the run game. The run game would have been more efficient and productive if they let Herbert run 2-3 times a game and establishing a threat. Mario said no to the idea and probably because of Herbert's tendency to get injured.
I thought the play calling was better the last few games of the season, more screens and different running plays outside of up the middle. Just comparing everything back to Chip and we want to see a guy who can adapt and find ways to make the QB successful and able to make plays. A lot of that was easy quick reads getting the ball out quick and letting playmakers do their thing in space (one missed tackle = YAC). Not having a back up took away the running threat this year which hurts us if we're going to run the Pistol, and we'll have to wait and see next year if things look better with another year in the system and some better players. Hopefully we look good in the bowl game and all this goes away.
I’m on the side of insufficient evidence. Nobody posting here knows whom is in ultimate control of each play call. Arroyo is an easy target, but this could just as easily be on MC. All speculation at this point, so point your fingers at whomever, you have no real clue.
We've never really had capable backups behind MM, DT, DD, or Masoli but they they still ran the ball. We're not powerhouse programs like Bama, Clemson, Georgia, where you have capable QBs to step in if the starter gets injured. So I don't feel MC will change and run the QB, if we ever do have a capable backup QB. Its reflective of the styles of chip vs mario; high risk, high reward vs low risk, low reward (with occasional lucky streak)
