Is Will Stein a good OC?

[OregonFan4Life]

This is an honest question, and I'd definitely like to hear from those who know more about football than I do. I will admit I'm just a casual fan and I've more than made my thoughts known about Will Stein this season. I'll post my thoughts, I won't be offended if people ignore it and just post their opinion of Will Stein. But I want to hear legit and objective opinions about Will Stein.

From my perspective it feels like the playbook is very limited with Will Stein, I remember people saying they thought Stein was saving the playbook for Washington, doesn't look that way. I see very little misdirection, nothing that confuses the defense, just plain playcalling that for the most part seems fairly easy to predict. It seems like he wants to use the best player and just rely on them flat out beating everyone. It just doesn't feel like our playmakers are getting the opportunities they should especially in the passing game. Obviously Franklin is amazing and gets plenty of catches and today Tez got 7 which I think is the most he's gotten in one game, but Holden only got 2 catches and Bryant Jr got none. Why aren't these athletes being utilized more? It seems like most of the time Bo completely ignores them and only looks for Franklin, maybe Tez. I also truly do not understand how Stein always runs plays to the short side of the field, again we have great playmakers, give them more field to work with.

Regarding Bo, he's still a great QB, but does it seem like his vision has gotten worse since last year? Does it seem like he locks into receivers and isn't seeing the whole field? On the first two failed fourth downs it looked like he had Holden wide open but didn't even look that way. It feels like he locks into Franklin, maybe looks at Tez, and if they aren't open just throws the checkdown, doesn't even look for a 3rd or 4th WR. Is that all part of Stein's plan? Is he one of those types that only has 1 maybe 2 reads and if they aren't open just throw the checkdown? I'm thinking that's likely simply cause a lot of the time Bo throws the checkdown he isn't under pressure. It isn't making sense and maybe it's a Bo issue but it just doesn't feel like Bo is finding open guys and I wonder if that's due to Stein's system.

And finally, I know Lanning is taking heat for the 4th downs, I'm actually OK with going for it on 4th down but I hate HOW they went for it on 4th down. It almost doesn't feel like Lanning and Stein are on the same page. When we are desperate and need 3 yards, can we not come up with something better? With Chip and Dilly it felt like they had the 4th down playcall ready before it was even 4th down, it feels like Stein is reactive with 4th downs more than proactive. It doesn't feel like he has much of a plan beyond the next play. I was telling a friend I was watching the game with that during the timeout on 3rd and 2, go huddle up, then sprint to the LOS and run back to back QB sneaks, with our large OLine we would've gotten that IMO. Instead we had a predictable run with what, 6 guys trying to block 8? And a 4th down playcall that went nowhere after taking half of the field away from Bo and the receivers. Is there nothing better that Stein can come up with when our undefeated season is on the line and we need 2 or 3 yards against a subpar Husky defense? I have to imagine he can come up with better. I just want to see more creativity and misdirection, ESPECIALLY on 4th down.

I don't think Stein is necessarily BAD, but I do think he needs to improve quite a bit if Oregon wants to become a consistent playoff contender.

[squintsdd]

This is an honest question, and I'd definitely like to hear from those who know more about football than I do. I will admit I'm just a casual fan and I've more than made my thoughts known about Will Stein this season. I'll post my thoughts, I won't be offended if people ignore it and just post their opinion of Will Stein. But I want to hear legit and objective opinions about Will Stein.

From my perspective it feels like the playbook is very limited with Will Stein, I remember people saying they thought Stein was saving the playbook for Washington, doesn't look that way. I see very little misdirection, nothing that confuses the defense, just plain playcalling that for the most part seems fairly easy to predict. It seems like he wants to use the best player and just rely on them flat out beating everyone. It just doesn't feel like our playmakers are getting the opportunities they should especially in the passing game. Obviously Franklin is amazing and gets plenty of catches and today Tez got 7 which I think is the most he's gotten in one game, but Holden only got 2 catches and Bryant Jr got none. Why aren't these athletes being utilized more? It seems like most of the time Bo completely ignores them and only looks for Franklin, maybe Tez. I also truly do not understand how Stein always runs plays to the short side of the field, again we have great playmakers, give them more field to work with.

Regarding Bo, he's still a great QB, but does it seem like his vision has gotten worse since last year? Does it seem like he locks into receivers and isn't seeing the whole field? On the first two failed fourth downs it looked like he had Holden wide open but didn't even look that way. It feels like he locks into Franklin, maybe looks at Tez, and if they aren't open just throws the checkdown, doesn't even look for a 3rd or 4th WR. Is that all part of Stein's plan? Is he one of those types that only has 1 maybe 2 reads and if they aren't open just throw the checkdown? I'm thinking that's likely simply cause a lot of the time Bo throws the checkdown he isn't under pressure. It isn't making sense and maybe it's a Bo issue but it just doesn't feel like Bo is finding open guys and I wonder if that's due to Stein's system.

And finally, I know Lanning is taking heat for the 4th downs, I'm actually OK with going for it on 4th down but I hate HOW they went for it on 4th down. It almost doesn't feel like Lanning and Stein are on the same page. When we are desperate and need 3 yards, can we not come up with something better? With Chip and Dilly it felt like they had the 4th down playcall ready before it was even 4th down, it feels like Stein is reactive with 4th downs more than proactive. It doesn't feel like he has much of a plan beyond the next play. I was telling a friend I was watching the game with that during the timeout on 3rd and 2, go huddle up, then sprint to the LOS and run back to back QB sneaks, with our large OLine we would've gotten that IMO. Instead we had a predictable run with what, 6 guys trying to block 8? And a 4th down playcall that went nowhere after taking half of the field away from Bo and the receivers. Is there nothing better that Stein can come up with when our undefeated season is on the line and we need 2 or 3 yards against a subpar Husky defense? I have to imagine he can come up with better. I just want to see more creativity and misdirection, ESPECIALLY on 4th down.

I don't think Stein is necessarily BAD, but I do think he needs to improve quite a bit if Oregon wants to become a consistent playoff contender.

Tldr.

Oregon gained 541 yards of offense
10 - 16 on 3rd down
0 turnovers
All against arguably the best defense they've seen so far, but it doesn't really matter what anyone here says, because I believe I saw you being one of the naysayers earlier in another thread. Oregon lost. Move on. I get tired of people calling for heads to roll when Oregon lost a game because a few plays didn't go their way. Get on the sideline, rise through the ranks, and see if you can do it better if you aren't happy with having one of the highest scoring offenses that averages the 2nd most yards in the country

[whosyourwally]

I get that we moved the ball and scored some points…. But we were awful in high leverage situations and there were only brief moments where it felt like our offense was really in sync. Washington bailed us out on our first scoring drive, Bo saved another with the 15 yard scramble, and Franklin kept another going with a great catch on prayer of a pass by Bo. Lots of 3rd and longs.

I don’t think anyone here is saying we should fire Stein. I do think it’s fair to question his calls/play designs. He’s young and seems bright, and I trust Lanning to grow him like he appears to be doing with Tosh.

Bo….is a great college QB, but I think this is what you get. He’s easily spooked, quickly checks down, and can pick the wrong times to (and not to) squeeze the ball into tight spaces. Even saw him tackle himself twice behind the LOS to avoid getting hit last night.

He can be lethally accurate on the short and midrange throws and throws very well on the move (MUCH more accurate than Penix last night when under pressure). And he seems to have some of those Tebow leadership traits/antics that keep his teammates locked in. Love that.


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[buckmarkduck]

Grubb is considered by many the top OC in the country right now. Stein went toe to toe with him yesterday. I think our issue right now is our guards are good not great. UW collapsed them and key plays yesterday. I’m never going to complain about a coach whose unit gets 541 yards, and put us in position for 42 points or at least 36. We played to win.

Oh and anyone complaining about the 4th down giving us the ball back at mid field. UW had to have a TD and DL knew it would be damn near impossible to stop them. Either win it with a 1st down, or get the ball back with some time on the clock.

[lmduck]

Buckmark and Squints- spot on assessments. Well done and well stated.

Facts won’t fit the narrative for some here.


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[UofDuck]

Buckmark and Squints- spot on assessments. Well done and well stated.

Facts won’t fit the narrative for some here.


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Exactly right. Our production was better than the number 1 offense in the country at their house. But go ahead, and keep asking your question over and over and over.

[DmoneyDuck]

I get that we moved the ball and scored some points…. But we were awful in high leverage situations and there were only brief moments where it felt like our offense was really in sync. Washington bailed us out on our first scoring drive, Bo saved another with the 15 yard scramble, and Franklin kept another going with a great catch on prayer of a pass by Bo. Lots of 3rd and longs.

I don’t think anyone here is saying we should fire Stein. I do think it’s fair to question his calls/play designs. He’s young and seems bright, and I trust Lanning to grow him like he appears to be doing with Tosh.

Bo….is a great college QB, but I think this is what you get. He’s easily spooked, quickly checks down, and can pick the wrong times to (and not to) squeeze the ball into tight spaces. Even saw him tackle himself twice behind the LOS to avoid getting hit last night.

He can be lethally accurate on the short and midrange throws and throws very well on the move (MUCH more accurate than Penix last night when under pressure). And he seems to have some of those Tebow leadership traits/antics that keep his teammates locked in. Love that.

I felt like this was a problem with Dillingham last year as well (WSU game, anyone?). Also, we put up points, but as you mentioned, it felt like arduous work in the first half. Each scoring drive took miraculous plays to keep the drive going, nothing was easy (or explosive), and that's what caused Oregon to putter out in the red zone during the middle portion of the game. It wasn't until Stein took the top off and unleashed Troy downfield that the game opened up for the Ducks (and inspired to defense, imo). Also, where the f*** were the tight ends in the offense yesterday?

[dthomas=ddixon]

I prefer Dilly’s philosophy of prioritizing explosives, but the only thing our offense did wrong yesterday was not convert those crucial 3rd and 4th downs. And all of them had someone open, Nix just didn’t see them. Not Stein’s fault.

[droop10]

I get that we moved the ball and scored some points…. But we were awful in high leverage situations and there were only brief moments where it felt like our offense was really in sync. Washington bailed us out on our first scoring drive, Bo saved another with the 15 yard scramble, and Franklin kept another going with a great catch on prayer of a pass by Bo. Lots of 3rd and longs.

I don’t think anyone here is saying we should fire Stein. I do think it’s fair to question his calls/play designs. He’s young and seems bright, and I trust Lanning to grow him like he appears to be doing with Tosh.

Bo….is a great college QB, but I think this is what you get. He’s easily spooked, quickly checks down, and can pick the wrong times to (and not to) squeeze the ball into tight spaces. Even saw him tackle himself twice behind the LOS to avoid getting hit last night.

He can be lethally accurate on the short and midrange throws and throws very well on the move (MUCH more accurate than Penix last night when under pressure). And he seems to have some of those Tebow leadership traits/antics that keep his teammates locked in. Love that.

I felt like this was a problem with Dillingham last year as well (WSU game, anyone?). Also, we put up points, but as you mentioned, it felt like arduous work in the first half. Each scoring drive took miraculous plays to keep the drive going, nothing was easy (or explosive), and that's what caused Oregon to putter out in the red zone during the middle portion of the game. It wasn't until Stein took the top off and unleashed Troy downfield that the game opened up for the Ducks (and inspired to defense, imo). Also, where the f*** were the tight ends in the offense yesterday?

TEs had 7 catches for 65 yards and a TD. I wouldn’t say they were non-existent. Part of the offense is using the repeated short passing plays/runs to draw the safeties up, and then you take the deep shots. The offense has been producing. I just get the feeling that some fans won’t be satisfied no matter who is OC. Stein isn’t an issue. Sometimes defenses make plays as well, or players don’t execute on good play calls. Not all failures on offense can be attributed to the OC.

[greenyellow]

On the three failed 4th down attempts, there's execution issues. On the first one, Bo needed to throw it immediately to Franklin once he came open in the front corner. Even before that play, Nix underthrew Holden on a flat route that would have been an easy score. On the second failed 4th down conversion, Nix went to Franklin who was covered tightly when he had Holden on a slant route where he easily gets the first down and likely scores as well. On the third 4th down attempt, Franklin got open down the field but Bo instead targeted Holden and Johnson along the sideline while throwing off his back foot. The plays were there to be made but just weren't.

[OregonFan4Life]

On the three failed 4th down attempts, there's execution issues. On the first one, Bo needed to throw it immediately to Franklin once he came open in the front corner. Even before that play, Nix underthrew Holden on a flat route that would have been an easy score. On the second failed 4th down conversion, Nix went to Franklin who was covered tightly when he had Holden on a slant route where he easily gets the first down and likely scores as well. On the third 4th down attempt, Franklin got open down the field but Bo instead targeted Holden and Johnson along the sideline while throwing off his back foot. The plays were there to be made but just weren't.

What I’m hearing are these errors are more in Bo than Stein, which makes sense. I’ve just seen Bo lock into the #1 receiver and throw the check down way more than last season and it made me wonder if for whatever reason Bo isn’t the field as well as last season or if it’s a part of Stein’s scheme, sounds like it’s Bo.

[GrantDuck]

From what I've seen so far, Stein is a pretty good OC with some deficiencies in short yardage situations.

He's really done a fantastic job of getting the ball to Troy Franklin more and balancing run and pass. Overall I'd like to see less throws in the flat and more throws to WR's downfield in the intermediate passing game, but that's maybe personal preference.

I noted it in previous games but it really came to bite us in the UW game, that he needs to be more creative in RZ and short yardage situations. Although he was limited by Mario and QB play, Joe Morehead was exceptional in these areas. He'd have special plays like little wheels to Travis Dye or zone read with a TE option that were so damn efficient in those situations.

I absolutely hate that we've abandoned read option running game for Bo, when it was such a weapon for us in short yardage last year.(damn near unstoppable). I get we want to keep Bo healthy, but in key situations, you need to be able to execute it.

So yeah, I think he's a good OC but still has some development to do as a young coach in big situations.

[GrantDuck]

On the three failed 4th down attempts, there's execution issues. On the first one, Bo needed to throw it immediately to Franklin once he came open in the front corner. Even before that play, Nix underthrew Holden on a flat route that would have been an easy score. On the second failed 4th down conversion, Nix went to Franklin who was covered tightly when he had Holden on a slant route where he easily gets the first down and likely scores as well. On the third 4th down attempt, Franklin got open down the field but Bo instead targeted Holden and Johnson along the sideline while throwing off his back foot. The plays were there to be made but just weren't.

Bo has messed up that play multiple times this season by not looking backside. Wasn't just the UW game.

Part of being a good OC is finding plays your players excel at.

[5$]

I like Will Stein and feel he has a high ceiling, but I think Kenny Dillingham was an offensive wiz with Chip Kelly-esque flashes of innovation, bummed he left so soon.

[ducks5ever]

On the three failed 4th down attempts, there's execution issues. On the first one, Bo needed to throw it immediately to Franklin once he came open in the front corner. Even before that play, Nix underthrew Holden on a flat route that would have been an easy score. On the second failed 4th down conversion, Nix went to Franklin who was covered tightly when he had Holden on a slant route where he easily gets the first down and likely scores as well. On the third 4th down attempt, Franklin got open down the field but Bo instead targeted Holden and Johnson along the sideline while throwing off his back foot. The plays were there to be made but just weren't.

Bo has messed up that play multiple times this season by not looking backside. Wasn't just the UW game.

Part of being a good OC is finding plays your players excel at.

That's called a tendency. A tendency that opposing DC's will pick up and defend against. Wasn't a big fan of Stein but those 3rd/4th down plays weren't all on coach Stein. As ddthomas=ddixon said, the opportunity to convert on all those plays was there.

More interesting question is whether coach Stein would be better served in the box up top. I'm not going to pretend to be a coach, but I've been on the sideline and I've been in the stands. It's much easier to see everything that's going on when you have a higher vantage point - at least for me.