Cheating *ss Michigan

[StevensTechU]

What's the appropriate punishment and what's the timing?

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... 11-schools

[Tray Dub]

Maybe this will sound contrarian, but I have a hard time getting too worked up about this. It sounds like this staffer was just filming things that were visible to anyone with a seat facing the sidelines. I get that filming is against NCAA rules and there should be some kind of punishment, but ultimately if other schools aren't making reasonable efforts to keep their signals secret, I don't really blame a school for trying to decode them. Frankly it's exactly what I'd expect competitive programs to do. But someone tell me if they think I'm missing something, I'm open to reconsidering.

[droop10]

Maybe this will sound contrarian, but I have a hard time getting too worked up about this. It sounds like this staffer was just filming things that were visible to anyone with a seat facing the sidelines. I get that filming is against NCAA rules and there should be some kind of punishment, but ultimately if other schools aren't making reasonable efforts to keep their signals secret, I don't really blame a school for trying to decode them. Frankly it's exactly what I'd expect competitive programs to do. But someone tell me if they think I'm missing something, I'm open to reconsidering.

I get what you're saying, but for me it's just the gall of consistently bending the rules for your school. Regardless of whether we think it's a silly rule, Harbaugh has consistently shown that he is willing to break the rules. The fact that he's already been suspended once this year for NCAA infractions and this comes out, shows that he just doesn't think the rules apply to him. I think that plays into whatever punishment they end up imposing, and leads to what's likely a stiffer penalty than if it was a one off incident. It is interesting to note that the school they didn't get to scout in person last season, TCU, put up 51 points on their vaunted defense.

Either way, I think this pushes Harbaugh back to the NFL after this season. Honestly, the appropriate punishment may be to make them ineligible for the postseason this year, just based on it being a 2nd infraction, and the fact that it gives the team a competitive advantage (thought they didn't need it for the shitty competition they've played to this point). That said, I doubt the NCAA enforces that, given how weak they are, so it might be a 1-2 game suspension for Harbaugh.

[pezsez1]

I have no problem with coaches and players attempting to steal signs using their eyeballs from where they're positioned during games. But what's happening here is straight-up cheating and incredibly bush league. Great point above about TCU lighting them up.

[buckmarkduck]

They should have to join the pac 2.

[nogerO]

What's the appropriate punishment and what's the timing?

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... 11-schools

I’ll take a stab at it. Slap on the wrist-next year. The cheating Harbaughs again.

[Duck07]

I think the appropriate punishment would be to have to vacate every single win where they had used the practice/tactic, no different than using an ineligible player would result in a similar punishment.

I also think that anything less than such a punishment probably encourages more questionable behavior but we'll see.

[StevensTechU]

To be honest, I think you have to ban them from the postseason. You already know enough to levy that punishment, and further punishment can come once the full extent is known.

But that won't happen. Most leagues are not actually interested in self policing their bigger brands, and college football is certainly one that won't.

[gogreen55]

The hammer should be brought down upon the Michigan program. Harbaugh should receive a show-cause. This is flagrant breaking of competitive advantage rules. A well thought out, well funded network of rule breakers. Then there is the blatant lying by Harbaugh in response to it all, just like with his recruiting violations.

This should be viewed no differently than if this funded network of rule breakers were flying drones high above the practice fields of opponents and recording it. No different than a team hiding microphones in the opponents locker room so they can eavesdrop during halftime. It does not matter which of these things you feel provides the biggest advantage. It is all the same concept. Flagrant cheating in an attempt to gain a competitive advantage.

It is absolutely laughable if anyone involved with the Michigan program tries to claim the coaches were unaware of this. There are pictures of this "low-level staffer" standing directly by the coaches during games, holding a pile of pages. This is the guy that bragged about "identifying the opponent's most likely course of action" on his LinkedIn page, before deleting his social media accounts after this story broke. When Michigan was playing Ohio State and the Buckeyes had the ball, the photos show him standing directly next to the Michigan Defensive Coordinator. When Michigan had the ball, the photos show him standing directly next to the Michigan Offensive Coordinator. You think maybe they were discussing some of the information his network of rule breakers obtained? You think this guy just wandered on to the sideline and Harbaugh doesn't know who he is and why he is there?

Kick this weird, four-eyed f*ck out of the college game....permanently.

[dd10snoop28]

If there was publicly-available film that showed another teams' sideline, would people on this forum consider it unethical to comb through that film to try to decipher the other team's signals?

Curious of the thoughts..... at baseball tournaments growing up, it was not an uncommon practice to watch your upcoming opponent's game and try to see if you could any "tells from watching their signals (mostly it was the coaches doing this but sometimes players too).

[bellsduck]

If there was publicly-available film that showed another teams' sideline, would people on this forum consider it unethical to comb through that film to try to decipher the other team's signals?

Curious of the thoughts..... at baseball tournaments growing up, it was not an uncommon practice to watch your upcoming opponent's game and try to see if you could any "tells from watching their signals (mostly it was the coaches doing this but sometimes players too).

But even then did they sit out in center field and watch the catchers signals and make charts? I don't think so

[bellsduck]

Say this stat yesterday

Jim Harbaugh went 2-4 in 2020, capping a 47-22 run (.681) over six years. Since the Michigan allegations began in 2021, Michigan has gone 33-3 (.917). Conference record has improved from 34-16 (.680) to 22-1 (.956)

[dd10snoop28]

If there was publicly-available film that showed another teams' sideline, would people on this forum consider it unethical to comb through that film to try to decipher the other team's signals?

Curious of the thoughts..... at baseball tournaments growing up, it was not an uncommon practice to watch your upcoming opponent's game and try to see if you could any "tells from watching their signals (mostly it was the coaches doing this but sometimes players too).

But even then did they sit out in center field and watch the catchers signals and make charts? I don't think so

Baseball usually has game film where u can see the catchers signals so I don't think looking at publicly available film that bad??..... making charts is another discussion in regards to how far you want to go to win, but to not do any research into another teams signals/playcalling is a lack of due diligence. I could see how it could fringe on over-the-top but there are millions of $$ on the line in these games sometimes, so making charts/researching their signals might seem a little sketchy, but otherwise you might be at competitive disadvantage.

[snapt]

News today is reporting the staffer bought tickets to 30+ Big Ten games over the last 3 years in his own name. An opposing school is allegedly turning over surveillance camera angles showing the ticket holder to that seat directly filming the sidelines. Pretty damning...

[nogerO]

The hammer should be brought down upon the Michigan program. Harbaugh should receive a show-cause. This is flagrant breaking of competitive advantage rules. A well thought out, well funded network of rule breakers. Then there is the blatant lying by Harbaugh in response to it all, just like with his recruiting violations.

This should be viewed no differently than if this funded network of rule breakers were flying drones high above the practice fields of opponents and recording it. No different than a team hiding microphones in the opponents locker room so they can eavesdrop during halftime. It does not matter which of these things you feel provides the biggest advantage. It is all the same concept. Flagrant cheating in an attempt to gain a competitive advantage.

It is absolutely laughable if anyone involved with the Michigan program tries to claim the coaches were unaware of this. There are pictures of this "low-level staffer" standing directly by the coaches during games, holding a pile of pages. This is the guy that bragged about "identifying the opponent's most likely course of action" on his LinkedIn page, before deleting his social media accounts after this story broke. When Michigan was playing Ohio State and the Buckeyes had the ball, the photos show him standing directly next to the Michigan Defensive Coordinator. When Michigan had the ball, the photos show him standing directly next to the Michigan Offensive Coordinator. You think maybe they were discussing some of the information his network of rule breakers obtained? You think this guy just wandered on to the sideline and Harbaugh doesn't know who he is and why he is there?

Kick this weird, four-eyed f*ck out of the college game....permanently.

Not to worry. He'll get himself fired. They'll fold like a house of cards at the first sign of real competition. Can't wait until we play them at Autzen.