Cheating *ss Michigan

[Phalanx]

Well, that's your story, but I don't happen to agree. I think if a team wants to send out esoteric signals, the burden is on them to disguise the signals. Making a rule that nobody is allowed to look at what is being done in plain sight seems very silly to me.

Your feelings don't trump an explicit rule though.

Uh, yeah. I mean, you quoted the part where I was talking about the rule, so saying there is a rule seems superfluous. I'm saying the rule is silly, and I'm also saying that acting like Harbaugh should be blackballed from coaching because some guy tied to the program bought tickets to games alongside tens of thousands of other fans is absurd. Whatever the punishment is for breaking a rule, it should be tempered by the fact that the information gained was already in the VERY public sphere. Something in the rules obviously needs to change to account for this. Either teams need to change signals, huddle more, or helmet technology needs to be updated. Asking people not to look at stuff in plain view on the honor system is not the answer, clearly.

[dd10snoop28]

The worst part of this fiasco is the rule itself. It does nothing to stop whatever "bad" thing it's supposed to stop, as there are multiple other ways to gain a competitive advantage over obtaining signs other than explicility filming at a game. Are other means of obtaining sideline film less bad? Surely not says the NCAA and members of this board.

At the most, Michigan is guilty of violating a dumb rule. However, in my opinion, I think the biggest takeaway is how dumb Michigan was to explicility violate the terms of the rule.... like, there are many other ways to cheat to steal signs, but they decided to send a guy to publicly film dozens of games in front of hundreds of thousands of fans thinking that no one would notice? Honestly sounds like a set up but I have no idea.

EDIT: I wonder if Michigan purposefully sent the guy to violate the rules in front of everyone to show how dumb the rules were....? a bit kooky but who knows.

[Phalanx]

My issue in watching all of this unfold isn't even just the rule. It's watching the media keep this going with daily 'shocking' revelations. Wow! The guy bought tickets to games! Ooh, this team found tickets purchased too! It's a massive operation! Now here is that guy on the Central Michigan sideline! Not sure what he is doing, but this is huge! He's clearly doing something guilty, look at the hat he is wearing! Next thing is a complete dossier on Jim Harbaugh and all the weird things he did in his life, as if that is somehow relevant. He doesn't like it when his players eat chicken!!! He's clearly guilty. Did you see that weird handshake after that one game 15 years ago? Michigan should get a bowl ban for that!

At this point, I'm just waiting for Adam Schiff to hold a wild-eyed press conference detailing how Harbaugh is in league with Russia.

[Alan]

Some of the reasoning of some posters is baffling and comical. To me it is simple, rules are in place and if you participate you know there are rules, rules are meant to be followed. Some think it seems like a silly rule, which some rules may be, but they are still the rules, if you don’t like or respect the rule get it changed, don’t break it using the excuse it’s silly, it is the rule! IMO Michigan cheated and they went way over the top to do so with so many tickets purchased and sidelines filmed, television coverage does not provide sideline signals, it may not be against the rules to buy a ticket but it is against the rules for a member of another team to use electronic devices to “spy” on other teams. I know this has been covered several times in this thread but I thought I would speak up and tell some of you that all you are doing is exposing the type of person you are…… the rules don’t apply to me….. they are the rules for everyone participating. We are playing five card draw but that is a dumb rule, I want 12 cards, smh.

[ElPatoLoco]

No lies detected.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dd10snoop28]

I know this has been covered several times in this thread but I thought I would speak up and tell some of you that all you are doing is exposing the type of person you are…… the rules don’t apply to me….. they are the rules for everyone participating. We are playing five card draw but that is a dumb rule, I want 12 cards, smh.

The amount of coverage/outrage does not equate to the heinousness of the violation committed by Michigan. End of story. I see some similarities to the Kyrie Irving situation....

And what's up with people on this thread attempting to destroy other people's moral character because of a difference in opinion on a violation of a unjust rule in a college football game?

When you (and pez) say that a cancer patient DESERVES to die (which is the equivalent of not being given life-saving treatment) because they didn't get an experimental therapeutic, one must consider whether your assessment of others' moral character holds any weight. The answer should be glaring.

[Phalanx]

Some of the reasoning of some posters is baffling and comical. To me it is simple

I just think it's funny how some people are unable to interact with this topic beyond the rulebook. You act like the rules were handed down from On High like some kind of textus receptus instead of things that change all the time. The rule we are talking about didn't even used to be the rule. It was changed because somebody reasoned that small schools can't afford to buy tickets to games to do scouting. So if the small schools got enough money to do this too, would your head explode? This is a message board, and we are allowed to examine the legitimacy of rules here. Rules actually change often due to public outcry. We are also allowed to examine the severity of alleged cheating and what the punishment should be, no matter how much it baffles you and hurts your head. Some people here want to hang Harbaugh from the nearest tree. I read somewhere that Joey Golloway wants to eliminate him from planet Earth. I think it's funny how the media goes to former Ohio State players, or SEC honks like Paul Finebaum for guidance on what to do to the Michigan program. It seems like someone with slightly less bias might be able to come to a message board to discuss this, no?

[pezsez1]

Well said, Alan.

Harbaugh isn't in potentially hot water because some guy he knows went to games. This is because he appeared to coordinate with someone to go to the games of his opponents, record their signals, decode their signals, and then relay his intel back to the university in such a way that it game them numerous competitive advantages. And that would clearly be against an existing rule.

Rules are rules, and no amount of mental gymnastics can change the fact that people who break rules deserve consequences. If you don't like a rule then get it changed. Until then, follow it. It's really that simple.

Also, nobody is calling on Harbaugh to be blackballed. College coaches break rules and find new jobs (or remain employed) all the time.

Let's stop overthinking this.

I just think it's funny how some people are unable to interact with this topic beyond the rulebook.

Just because people aren't falling over themselves to agree with certain viewpoints doesn't mean they're not thinking. Much of what can be said about this topic has already been said. We can debate whether the rule is silly or whether it should be changed. But at the end of the day, this really boils down to Michigan apparently breaking a rule (pretty egregiously, too) and when/how Harbaugh should be punished for it. That is the much more immediate and relevant topic with actual postseason ramifications.

[dd10snoop28]

A couple things the lead me to think there are significant parts of this story that are not currently being made available:

(1) the media outrage on both sides. Anytime I go to a website there is either a crazy article against Michigan or against Michigan's opponents... Of course, all trying to drive clicks, but I haven't really seen any good analysis of the situation. Bizarre.
(2) how insane and illogical for Michigan to send a guy to dozens of games in front of 100s of thousands of fans, and film an entire game (With a camera or phone??) in front of those fans....Makes no sense. There are dozens of other ways to steal signs of the opposing team but they chose the most self-exposing method and one that violates the specific verbiage of the "rule".

[pezsez1]

the media outrage on both sides. Anytime I go to a website there is either a crazy article against Michigan or against Michigan's opponents... Of course, all trying to drive clicks, but I haven't really seen any good analysis of the situation. Bizarre.

As a former newspaper reporter who is now heavily into online performance marketing, I can tell you there is far more money in clickbait than there ever was in journalism. That's a big reason why this problem exists, and there's arguably no ethical way to fix that.

[Alan]

the media outrage on both sides. Anytime I go to a website there is either a crazy article against Michigan or against Michigan's opponents... Of course, all trying to drive clicks, but I haven't really seen any good analysis of the situation. Bizarre.

As a former newspaper reporter who is now heavily into online performance marketing, I can tell you there is far more money in clickbait than there ever was in journalism. That's a big reason why this problem exists, and there's arguably no ethical way to fix that.

It is simply the result of 24/7 news, it may be unfair but there are no “rules” in place, rules have a purpose.

[Alan]

I know this has been covered several times in this thread but I thought I would speak up and tell some of you that all you are doing is exposing the type of person you are…… the rules don’t apply to me….. they are the rules for everyone participating. We are playing five card draw but that is a dumb rule, I want 12 cards, smh.

The amount of coverage/outrage does not equate to the heinousness of the violation committed by Michigan. End of story. I see some similarities to the Kyrie Irving situation....

And what's up with people on this thread attempting to destroy other people's moral character because of a difference in opinion on a violation of a unjust rule in a college football game?

When you (and pez) say that a cancer patient DESERVES to die (which is the equivalent of not being given life-saving treatment) because they didn't get an experimental therapeutic, one must consider whether your assessment of others' moral character holds any weight. The answer should be glaring.

I have never said a cancer patient deserves to die! What a dumbass, radical statement to make on a public board! Again showing your true colors…..

[dd10snoop28]

I know this has been covered several times in this thread but I thought I would speak up and tell some of you that all you are doing is exposing the type of person you are…… the rules don’t apply to me….. they are the rules for everyone participating. We are playing five card draw but that is a dumb rule, I want 12 cards, smh.

The amount of coverage/outrage does not equate to the heinousness of the violation committed by Michigan. End of story. I see some similarities to the Kyrie Irving situation....

And what's up with people on this thread attempting to destroy other people's moral character because of a difference in opinion on a violation of a unjust rule in a college football game?

When you (and pez) say that a cancer patient DESERVES to die (which is the equivalent of not being given life-saving treatment) because they didn't get an experimental therapeutic, one must consider whether your assessment of others' moral character holds any weight. The answer should be glaring.

I have never said a cancer patient deserves to die! What a dumbass, radical statement to make on a public board! Again showing your true colors…..

Pez outright said it. You implied it by saying that - in regards to the woman who was refused life-saving treatment - she herself was to blame for her inevitable death because of the hospital's denial of life-saving treatment.

https://ducksattack.com/forum/viewtopic ... ce#p515663

You are strong with your words, but empty in your substance.

[pezsez1]

Pez outright said it.

Me, in my best Ron Howard voice: "Pez did not, in fact, outright say that."

I think it's time for a mod to give Snoop a virtual smack upside the head.

[5$]

Some of the reasoning of some posters is baffling and comical. To me it is simple

I just think it's funny how some people are unable to interact with this topic beyond the rulebook. You act like the rules were handed down from On High like some kind of textus receptus instead of things that change all the time. The rule we are talking about didn't even used to be the rule. It was changed because somebody reasoned that small schools can't afford to buy tickets to games to do scouting. So if the small schools got enough money to do this too, would your head explode? This is a message board, and we are allowed to examine the legitimacy of rules here. Rules actually change often due to public outcry. We are also allowed to examine the severity of alleged cheating and what the punishment should be, no matter how much it baffles you and hurts your head. Some people here want to hang Harbaugh from the nearest tree. I read somewhere that Joey Golloway wants to eliminate him from planet Earth. I think it's funny how the media goes to former Ohio State players, or SEC honks like Paul Finebaum for guidance on what to do to the Michigan program. It seems like someone with slightly less bias might be able to come to a message board to discuss this, no?

Dumb argument. Who would have known that before cell phones one day literally everyone would be carrying a video camera capable of filming nearly movie-quality footage everywhere they go?