Muslim attempted to bomb downtown Portland

[Tray Dub]

TK, why exactly do you need to call him a Muslim in the title? He's an extremist terrorist. That's a way better description of him than "Muslim" and by singling that attribute out, you feed the beast of xenophobic hatred that many feel towards Muslims. It would be like, after Timothy McVeigh blew up the OKC federal buildings, calling him a Republican. It doesn't matter. What made him do it wasn't being Muslim, it was being a radical Muslim. Very different. I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, but it's just so important for people to be careful about their descriptions of Muslims these days.

did you guys actually read about this?

it was the FBI that dreamed it all up in the first place. they did it to create news.... the american PR machine rolls on... and on... and on....

Uh... Did YOU actually read it? It was a sting operation. They didn't dream it up, the kid did.

Because I know him, he was a Muslim extremist. And as he detonated the explosive, he said "allah akbar". Obviously he did this because of his religious beliefs. Why should a fact like this be thrown under the carpet?

Half my family is Muslim, so I'm pretty sure I know most Muslims are not dangerous people. I love my family, and I trust them more than anyone else. But at the same time, most terrorists are Muslims, and it bothers me when the media or liberals try to hide this fact to act as if it could have been anyone. And NO that is not the case. Extremist Muslims are very dangerous.

Yeah, I know he's a Muslim. He's also a Somalian, a 19 year old, and a black kid. Why didn't you describe him as any of those in your title? Because you think it's his religion that's at fault. Wrong. It was his extremism. My example of McVeigh is a good one. It wasn't being Republican that caused the bombing. It was his extremism. You wouldn't have said the next day, "Republican blows up OKC buildings."

Because it isn't because someone is black that they commit terrorist attacks. It's not because he's a teenager that he commits terrorist acts. It's because he's an Islamic extremist that he did these attacks. Had he not been involved in the religion, I guarantee this would have never happened.

Haha wow, McVeigh was trained by Al-Qaeda
http://intelwire.egoplex.com/nichols022004.html#s3

Now tell me what almost all of these terrorists have in common (that's right their religion):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te ... .93present

Your politically correct agenda has clearly closed your eyes to the truth.
"Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush."
"Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war."
"Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."
"I have been ordered by Allah to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah."

When the Islamic fanatics are asked why they have done these terrorist attacks, their answer is almost always because of their religion/beliefs. And if that's too much for you to understand, then why continue this conversation? You clearly are stuck in your fallacies..

Way to go TK, ignore the post that debunked your foundation for your misconceptions about Islam.

The fact that you're now distinguishing extremist Muslims from average Muslims means I no longer have a problem. I know religious extremism is to blame for most modern terrorist attacks (although your wikipedia link misses the point, ever heard of the IRA or the KKK? Radical Islam is far from the only contributor to terrorism), but the point I was making is that Islam is not the problem. Islam is not inherently evil. It's the extremists that are.

Though you'll probably ignore it, I'll explain the excerpts you mentioned:

First one: don't add your own commentary when you're ignorant. It wasn't talking about Christians, it was talking about some Arab pagans during one war. It was written only for that war, it was not a green light on mass murder. It just said to defeat the Arab enemy.

Second one: actually referring to those same Arab pagans. Also, it's significant that he says fight, not kill. From what I've read, the distinction in Arabic means a great deal, as fight in no way condones slaughter of innocents. Oh, and about eight words after your quote, the Quran says not to kill women and children. So terrorism is kinda proscribed right there.

Third: once again, not referring to all infidels. Read about what you're quoting.

Fourth: this justifies terrorism where? All it means is that Muslims are supposed to proselytize. Scary.

Also, I'm not all PC. It usually pisses me off as much as it does most people. However, using inflammatory language should be admonished, and then blasting a religion out of ignorance is completely unacceptable. This isn't about PC, this is about you not knowing what you're talking about.

[Tray Dub]

TK, why exactly do you need to call him a Muslim in the title? He's an extremist terrorist. That's a way better description of him than "Muslim" and by singling that attribute out, you feed the beast of xenophobic hatred that many feel towards Muslims. It would be like, after Timothy McVeigh blew up the OKC federal buildings, calling him a Republican. It doesn't matter. What made him do it wasn't being Muslim, it was being a radical Muslim. Very different. I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, but it's just so important for people to be careful about their descriptions of Muslims these days.

did you guys actually read about this?

it was the FBI that dreamed it all up in the first place. they did it to create news.... the american PR machine rolls on... and on... and on....

Uh... Did YOU actually read it? It was a sting operation. They didn't dream it up, the kid did.

Unfortunately, it's because of his religion that he performed this act.

I have family/friends that are Muslim and they acknowledge that their book(Koran) does promote violence to non-muslims. My family tries to ignore this part of the Quran, but do we call people that follow their religion "radical"? The "radicals" are the ones that are actually carrying out what the Quran says to do. On the other hand "normal Muslim's"(like my family), either don't know what the Quran says or they try to ignore it.

I don't know. A "Muslim" is someone who follows the Quran. An extremist is someone just following what their book says.

Like I said, I know a lot of people that try to ignore parts of their religion. Are these really "Muslims"?

Sorry if I offend anybody, but this is just what I think being around close family that are Muslim. I love my family to death. It's not a problem with them I have, I just think there are some things in their religion that can improve.

It sounds like your family members haven't spent much time on their religion. The Quran does not promote wanton violence toward infidels. I haven't read all of it, but the preponderance of serious religious scholars agree with that. The overarching message of the Quran is completely antithetical to what terrorism stands for. If you want to post any verses of the Quran to back you up, I'll look at them, but here's just a couple for you to look at:

"But if the enemy inclines towards peace, you (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah" [Quran 9:61]

"Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression." [Quran 2:193]

"Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors." [Quran 2:190]

There are about 100 verses on the Quran that promote violence. I'll go into depth a little later in the week, but the thing I found most important about Islam is that in the Quran there is only one prophet in which they can observe to live their life like.

Mohammed is that prophet, but his life is filled with lustfulness(12 marriages and sex with a child, slaves and concubines), rapes, warfare, conquests, and unmerciful butcheries.

It seems like the extremists are just trying to do what the Quran is trying to teach them:
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them".

When a Muslim does a thing like this how can you call him an "extremist" when he's doing as he's told?

Again, I'll delve into this a little deeper later on, but I'm a little short on time today.

I think there is a difference between your argument about the Republican OKC bombing and this incident.
1- The republican party does not promote violence to those who do not believe and if they do perform evil actions(OKC), it's in totally opposition to that party.
2- But when Muslims commit such acts, they can in fact claim that they are following the example of their prophet and thus fulfilling the will of God and promoting His cause. Big difference!

You may not agree that Islam promotes violence, but I suggest you read the Quran and it should open your eyes a little bit more. I'll show some stuff later on that proves my point.

I respect your opinions either way, TrayDub.

Thanks man, I appreciate the respectful debate. Makes it way easier to exchange information and ideas, and it doesn't raise my blood pressure.

Your quote refers to the Battle of Badr. It was a directive only against the Muslims' enemies in that battle, not against all disbelievers everywhere.

I won't get into whether Mohammed was a hypocrite, because I think what matters is what the scripture actually says.

I look forward to your bigger post, but the point of debate is whether Islam promotes violence. If it does, then my OKC analogy sucks. But if it doesn't, then the point stands. I have yet to be convinced that Islam promotes violence, but like I said, I'm looking forward to seeing what you have to say.

[UOducksTK1]

TK, why exactly do you need to call him a Muslim in the title? He's an extremist terrorist. That's a way better description of him than "Muslim" and by singling that attribute out, you feed the beast of xenophobic hatred that many feel towards Muslims. It would be like, after Timothy McVeigh blew up the OKC federal buildings, calling him a Republican. It doesn't matter. What made him do it wasn't being Muslim, it was being a radical Muslim. Very different. I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, but it's just so important for people to be careful about their descriptions of Muslims these days.

did you guys actually read about this?

it was the FBI that dreamed it all up in the first place. they did it to create news.... the american PR machine rolls on... and on... and on....

Uh... Did YOU actually read it? It was a sting operation. They didn't dream it up, the kid did.

Because I know him, he was a Muslim extremist. And as he detonated the explosive, he said "allah akbar". Obviously he did this because of his religious beliefs. Why should a fact like this be thrown under the carpet?

Half my family is Muslim, so I'm pretty sure I know most Muslims are not dangerous people. I love my family, and I trust them more than anyone else. But at the same time, most terrorists are Muslims, and it bothers me when the media or liberals try to hide this fact to act as if it could have been anyone. And NO that is not the case. Extremist Muslims are very dangerous.

Yeah, I know he's a Muslim. He's also a Somalian, a 19 year old, and a black kid. Why didn't you describe him as any of those in your title? Because you think it's his religion that's at fault. Wrong. It was his extremism. My example of McVeigh is a good one. It wasn't being Republican that caused the bombing. It was his extremism. You wouldn't have said the next day, "Republican blows up OKC buildings."

Because it isn't because someone is black that they commit terrorist attacks. It's not because he's a teenager that he commits terrorist acts. It's because he's an Islamic extremist that he did these attacks. Had he not been involved in the religion, I guarantee this would have never happened.

Haha wow, McVeigh was trained by Al-Qaeda
http://intelwire.egoplex.com/nichols022004.html#s3

Now tell me what almost all of these terrorists have in common (that's right their religion):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te ... .93present

Your politically correct agenda has clearly closed your eyes to the truth.
"Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush."
"Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war."
"Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."
"I have been ordered by Allah to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah."

When the Islamic fanatics are asked why they have done these terrorist attacks, their answer is almost always because of their religion/beliefs. And if that's too much for you to understand, then why continue this conversation? You clearly are stuck in your fallacies..

Way to go TK, ignore the post that debunked your foundation for your misconceptions about Islam.

The fact that you're now distinguishing extremist Muslims from average Muslims means I no longer have a problem. I know religious extremism is to blame for most modern terrorist attacks (although your wikipedia link misses the point, ever heard of the IRA or the KKK? Radical Islam is far from the only contributor to terrorism), but the point I was making is that Islam is not the problem. Islam is not inherently evil. It's the extremists that are.

Though you'll probably ignore it, I'll explain the excerpts you mentioned:

First one: don't add your own commentary when you're ignorant. It wasn't talking about Christians, it was talking about some Arab pagans during one war. It was written only for that war, it was not a green light on mass murder. It just said to defeat the Arab enemy.

Second one: actually referring to those same Arab pagans. Also, it's significant that he says fight, not kill. From what I've read, the distinction in Arabic means a great deal, as fight in no way condones slaughter of innocents. Oh, and about eight words after your quote, the Quran says not to kill women and children. So terrorism is kinda proscribed right there.

Third: once again, not referring to all infidels. Read about what you're quoting.

Fourth: this justifies terrorism where? All it means is that Muslims are supposed to proselytize. Scary.

Also, I'm not all PC. It usually pisses me off as much as it does most people. However, using inflammatory language should be admonished, and then blasting a religion out of ignorance is completely unacceptable. This isn't about PC, this is about you not knowing what you're talking about.

Right not all Muslims are dangerous, I never said that. However my argument is that their roots lie inside their religion. And of course there's still crazy people in this world that are NOT Muslim. Obviously it'd be ignorant to state that terrorist acts are only done by Muslims. However, very many terrorists these days are Muslim. And the reason they are terrorists is because of their religious beliefs. "Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection." It doesn't get anymore clear than that. Many people like Moe Moe, take that very literally. He said when he saw people jumping out of the buildings in 9/11, he thought it was awesome. He was a very passionate Muslim, I knew him personally. Islam has the potential to be a dangerous religion. If Muslims can get brainwashed enough by some of the passages like the ones I shared above, then they are equally capable to pull off what Moe Moe did.

[Tray Dub]

TK, why exactly do you need to call him a Muslim in the title? He's an extremist terrorist. That's a way better description of him than "Muslim" and by singling that attribute out, you feed the beast of xenophobic hatred that many feel towards Muslims. It would be like, after Timothy McVeigh blew up the OKC federal buildings, calling him a Republican. It doesn't matter. What made him do it wasn't being Muslim, it was being a radical Muslim. Very different. I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, but it's just so important for people to be careful about their descriptions of Muslims these days.

Uh... Did YOU actually read it? It was a sting operation. They didn't dream it up, the kid did.

Because I know him, he was a Muslim extremist. And as he detonated the explosive, he said "allah akbar". Obviously he did this because of his religious beliefs. Why should a fact like this be thrown under the carpet?

Half my family is Muslim, so I'm pretty sure I know most Muslims are not dangerous people. I love my family, and I trust them more than anyone else. But at the same time, most terrorists are Muslims, and it bothers me when the media or liberals try to hide this fact to act as if it could have been anyone. And NO that is not the case. Extremist Muslims are very dangerous.

Yeah, I know he's a Muslim. He's also a Somalian, a 19 year old, and a black kid. Why didn't you describe him as any of those in your title? Because you think it's his religion that's at fault. Wrong. It was his extremism. My example of McVeigh is a good one. It wasn't being Republican that caused the bombing. It was his extremism. You wouldn't have said the next day, "Republican blows up OKC buildings."

Because it isn't because someone is black that they commit terrorist attacks. It's not because he's a teenager that he commits terrorist acts. It's because he's an Islamic extremist that he did these attacks. Had he not been involved in the religion, I guarantee this would have never happened.

Haha wow, McVeigh was trained by Al-Qaeda
http://intelwire.egoplex.com/nichols022004.html#s3

Now tell me what almost all of these terrorists have in common (that's right their religion):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te ... .93present

Your politically correct agenda has clearly closed your eyes to the truth.
"Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush."
"Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war."
"Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."
"I have been ordered by Allah to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah."

When the Islamic fanatics are asked why they have done these terrorist attacks, their answer is almost always because of their religion/beliefs. And if that's too much for you to understand, then why continue this conversation? You clearly are stuck in your fallacies..

Way to go TK, ignore the post that debunked your foundation for your misconceptions about Islam.

The fact that you're now distinguishing extremist Muslims from average Muslims means I no longer have a problem. I know religious extremism is to blame for most modern terrorist attacks (although your wikipedia link misses the point, ever heard of the IRA or the KKK? Radical Islam is far from the only contributor to terrorism), but the point I was making is that Islam is not the problem. Islam is not inherently evil. It's the extremists that are.

Though you'll probably ignore it, I'll explain the excerpts you mentioned:

First one: don't add your own commentary when you're ignorant. It wasn't talking about Christians, it was talking about some Arab pagans during one war. It was written only for that war, it was not a green light on mass murder. It just said to defeat the Arab enemy.

Second one: actually referring to those same Arab pagans. Also, it's significant that he says fight, not kill. From what I've read, the distinction in Arabic means a great deal, as fight in no way condones slaughter of innocents. Oh, and about eight words after your quote, the Quran says not to kill women and children. So terrorism is kinda proscribed right there.

Third: once again, not referring to all infidels. Read about what you're quoting.

Fourth: this justifies terrorism where? All it means is that Muslims are supposed to proselytize. Scary.

Also, I'm not all PC. It usually pisses me off as much as it does most people. However, using inflammatory language should be admonished, and then blasting a religion out of ignorance is completely unacceptable. This isn't about PC, this is about you not knowing what you're talking about.

Right not all Muslims are dangerous, I never said that. However my argument is that their roots lie inside their religion. And of course there's still crazy people in this world that are NOT Muslim. Obviously it'd be ignorant to state that terrorist acts are only done by Muslims. However, very many terrorists these days are Muslim. And the reason they are terrorists is because of their religious beliefs. "Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection." It doesn't get anymore clear than that. Many people like Moe Moe, take that very literally. He said when he saw people jumping out of the buildings in 9/11, he thought it was awesome. He was a very passionate Muslim, I knew him personally. Islam has the potential to be a dangerous religion. If Muslims can get brainwashed enough by some of the passages like the ones I shared above, then they are equally capable to pull off what Moe Moe did.

Okay, this I can agree with mostly. My only point was that the religion of Islam is not in and of itself evil or violent. It can be corrupted by dogmatic extremists, but so can Christianity, Judaism, and any other doctrine. As long as you aren't saying that (when properly understood) Islam condones terrorism, then I'm fine with you.

[UOducksTK1]

Because I know him, he was a Muslim extremist. And as he detonated the explosive, he said "allah akbar". Obviously he did this because of his religious beliefs. Why should a fact like this be thrown under the carpet?

Half my family is Muslim, so I'm pretty sure I know most Muslims are not dangerous people. I love my family, and I trust them more than anyone else. But at the same time, most terrorists are Muslims, and it bothers me when the media or liberals try to hide this fact to act as if it could have been anyone. And NO that is not the case. Extremist Muslims are very dangerous.

Yeah, I know he's a Muslim. He's also a Somalian, a 19 year old, and a black kid. Why didn't you describe him as any of those in your title? Because you think it's his religion that's at fault. Wrong. It was his extremism. My example of McVeigh is a good one. It wasn't being Republican that caused the bombing. It was his extremism. You wouldn't have said the next day, "Republican blows up OKC buildings."

Because it isn't because someone is black that they commit terrorist attacks. It's not because he's a teenager that he commits terrorist acts. It's because he's an Islamic extremist that he did these attacks. Had he not been involved in the religion, I guarantee this would have never happened.

Haha wow, McVeigh was trained by Al-Qaeda
http://intelwire.egoplex.com/nichols022004.html#s3

Now tell me what almost all of these terrorists have in common (that's right their religion):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te ... .93present

Your politically correct agenda has clearly closed your eyes to the truth.
"Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush."
"Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war."
"Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."
"I have been ordered by Allah to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah."

When the Islamic fanatics are asked why they have done these terrorist attacks, their answer is almost always because of their religion/beliefs. And if that's too much for you to understand, then why continue this conversation? You clearly are stuck in your fallacies..

Way to go TK, ignore the post that debunked your foundation for your misconceptions about Islam.

The fact that you're now distinguishing extremist Muslims from average Muslims means I no longer have a problem. I know religious extremism is to blame for most modern terrorist attacks (although your wikipedia link misses the point, ever heard of the IRA or the KKK? Radical Islam is far from the only contributor to terrorism), but the point I was making is that Islam is not the problem. Islam is not inherently evil. It's the extremists that are.

Though you'll probably ignore it, I'll explain the excerpts you mentioned:

First one: don't add your own commentary when you're ignorant. It wasn't talking about Christians, it was talking about some Arab pagans during one war. It was written only for that war, it was not a green light on mass murder. It just said to defeat the Arab enemy.

Second one: actually referring to those same Arab pagans. Also, it's significant that he says fight, not kill. From what I've read, the distinction in Arabic means a great deal, as fight in no way condones slaughter of innocents. Oh, and about eight words after your quote, the Quran says not to kill women and children. So terrorism is kinda proscribed right there.

Third: once again, not referring to all infidels. Read about what you're quoting.

Fourth: this justifies terrorism where? All it means is that Muslims are supposed to proselytize. Scary.

Also, I'm not all PC. It usually pisses me off as much as it does most people. However, using inflammatory language should be admonished, and then blasting a religion out of ignorance is completely unacceptable. This isn't about PC, this is about you not knowing what you're talking about.

Right not all Muslims are dangerous, I never said that. However my argument is that their roots lie inside their religion. And of course there's still crazy people in this world that are NOT Muslim. Obviously it'd be ignorant to state that terrorist acts are only done by Muslims. However, very many terrorists these days are Muslim. And the reason they are terrorists is because of their religious beliefs. "Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection." It doesn't get anymore clear than that. Many people like Moe Moe, take that very literally. He said when he saw people jumping out of the buildings in 9/11, he thought it was awesome. He was a very passionate Muslim, I knew him personally. Islam has the potential to be a dangerous religion. If Muslims can get brainwashed enough by some of the passages like the ones I shared above, then they are equally capable to pull off what Moe Moe did.

Okay, this I can agree with mostly. My only point was that the religion of Islam is not in and of itself evil or violent. It can be corrupted by dogmatic extremists, but so can Christianity, Judaism, and any other doctrine. As long as you aren't saying that (when properly understood) Islam condones terrorism, then I'm fine with you.

Meh that's still a gray area for me. I'm not saying Islam condones terrorism, however, people highly indoctrinated into the Islamic religion are more open to violent behaviors. So I still think we see things differently. Whereas Christians who are extremists are usually big time amish people and are completely cut off from the world.

[Tray Dub]

I'd disagree, but that's way more reasonable an opinion than what I was arguing against.

And, by the way, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, KKK attacks, and abortion clinic bombings were all carried out by Christians for Christianity, and the terrorists were normal members of society, not Amish. Any religion can be taken to extremes.

[karlhungis]

I've never heard of an Amish terrorist attack.

[Zyme]

Its disgusting that the Mosque he attended in Corvallis was the target of arson. Fucking hicks. Learn the difference between extremists and a whole religion.

Extremists in every religion are scary people.

[USUaggieDuck]

did you guys actually read about this?

it was the FBI that dreamed it all up in the first place. they did it to create news.... the american PR machine rolls on... and on... and on....

[Tray Dub]

TK, I think you need to change the title.

"19 year old Somali Muslim black Corvallis kid attempted to bomb downtown Portland. He also hates puppies."

Or... "Douchebag attempted to bomb downtown Portland"

You're kind of missing the point.