Blazers

[pezsez1]

If he was planning further tanking beyond this year,

We are too good to tank going forward, and to do so would be silly.

But we're still a rebuilding team and tanking isn't the only way to rebuild. For example, we should still be focused on moving off from veterans like Simons, Grant & Ayton in exchange for assets that would fit better with our young core (or for better draft positioning). Trading either assets or core pieces for an aging superstar for the chance to win now (at the expense of winning 3-4 years from now with a more balanced & effective roster) would be silly.

[squintsdd]

If he was planning further tanking beyond this year,

We are too good to tank going forward, and to do so would be silly.

But we're still a rebuilding team and tanking isn't the only way to rebuild. For example, we should still be focused on moving off from veterans like Simons, Grant & Ayton in exchange for assets that would fit better with our young core (or for better draft positioning). Trading either assets or core pieces for an aging superstar for the chance to win now (at the expense of winning 3-4 years from now with a more balanced & effective roster) would be silly.

Did... did you just say what we've been trying to tell you throughout most this thread?

[pezsez1]

Did... did you just say what we've been trying to tell you throughout most this thread?

No. We screwed the pooch by not tanking this season, which was our last viable year to justify tanking (in what could be a generationally great draft class).

Going forward, it won't make sense to tank. We'll be too good.

I've been saying this with 100% consistency.

We're a rebuilding team, but "ownership" got the yips and hamstrung our development.

Also, just FYI, we will likely be in the lottery again next season even if we're no longer be tanking. It will just be like this year where we probably won't end up with a great pick. (And we might even lose next year's pick to Chicago? Not sure if/when that lottery protection comes off.)

[Phalanx]

If he was planning further tanking beyond this year,

We are too good to tank going forward, and to do so would be silly.

But we're still a rebuilding team and tanking isn't the only way to rebuild. For example, we should still be focused on moving off from veterans like Simons, Grant & Ayton in exchange for assets that would fit better with our young core (or for better draft positioning). Trading either assets or core pieces for an aging superstar for the chance to win now (at the expense of winning 3-4 years from now with a more balanced & effective roster) would be silly.

Did... did you just say what we've been trying to tell you throughout most this thread?

Haha, was thinking the same thing as I read. Thanks for affirming that I am not crazy.

[pezsez1]

Haha, was thinking the same thing as I read. Thanks for affirming that I am not crazy.

How either of you managed to completely misread what I've been saying is beyond me.

[squintsdd]

Haha, was thinking the same thing as I read. Thanks for affirming that I am not crazy.

How either of you managed to completely misread what I've been saying is beyond me.

How you've been unable to recognize that the Blazers were to good to be tanking until now is beyond me.

[pezsez1]

How you've been unable to recognize that the Blazers were to good to be tanking until now is beyond me.

How you think they were as good at the start of the year as they were against bad/tanking teams toward the end of the year is beyond me.

That aside, Portland is a rebuilding team that's largely dependent on the draft. This is a stellar draft class in a year everyone expected the Blazers to tank. You have to be completely delusional not to understand why the Blazers would have been given a pass for tanking one more year.

[squintsdd]

How you've been unable to recognize that the Blazers were to good to be tanking until now is beyond me.

How you think they were as good at the start of the year as they were against bad/tanking teams toward the end of the year is beyond me.

That aside, Portland is a rebuilding team that's largely dependent on the draft. This is a stellar draft class in a year everyone expected the Blazers to tank. You have to be completely delusional not to understand why the Blazers would have been given a pass for tanking one more year.

If you go back to January, the Blazers were very competitive against nearly every playoff team in the league, even winning some games here and there nobody thought they would. Did they lose some that they shouldn't have, and have some ugly losses mixed in? Sure, but these kinds of inconsistencies are what happen with young teams that are a player or 2 away from being strong playoff teams. You know, the type of teams that are to good to be tanking, but just not quite good enough to get into the playoffs yet.

I don't care what the draft looks like, they had no business tanking. They were to good for that, so their efforts were best put to trying to crash the playoffs.

[pezsez1]

If you go back to January

Being "competitive" in games before the All-Star break is pretty meaningless. It just means we still couldn't beat teams that hadn't completely gelled and weren't playing hard until the fourth quarter.

The Blazers absolutely should have tanked this season and played for draft positioning. We might get lucky with the ping pong balls but continuing to "thread the needle" could keep this core from ever reaching its potential. Virtually every single NBA beat writer agrees with me on this. Deni's growth was a nice story, but we'd better pray someone really wants those Bucks swaps or it's going to be another fruitless decade.

[squintsdd]

If you go back to January

Being "competitive" in games before the All-Star break is pretty meaningless. It just means we still couldn't beat teams that hadn't completely gelled and weren't playing hard until the fourth quarter.

The Blazers absolutely should have tanked this season and played for draft positioning. We might get lucky with the ping pong balls but continuing to "thread the needle" could keep this core from ever reaching its potential. Virtually every single NBA beat writer agrees with me on this. Deni's growth was a nice story, but we'd better pray someone really wants those Bucks swaps or it's going to be another fruitless decade.

So they could only beat tanking teams, but when they did beat, or were competing with good teams as far back as January it's because they hadn't gelled? You understand the season starts in October right? Teams have gelled by January. Also, the Allstar break was midway through February, 59 games into the season, well past the midway point. To say that teams haven't gelled by then is just fooling yourself. At this point you're just saying things to try and fit your justification for tanking. Even with the injuries, the Blazers were to good to tank.

It's an unfortunate reality you need to face that the Blazers were going to be stuck in no man's land this season. They simply couldn't get away with tanking if they wanted to. Not only that, but another year of tanking would destroy the morale of these young kids.

[pezsez1]

The Blazers absolutely could have tanked this season. They "beat" teams late in the season that had controlled entire games against them before pulling starters toward the end. The Blazers didn't even really try until they were just about to maybe make the play in lol. Seriously the worst-case scenario for team management.

I'm holding out on the hope that Cronin already has some kind of master class trade waiting in the wings, otherwise this season was a nut punch to our chances of ever winning.

[pezsez1]

Our chances of pulling off a big trade just went up if Dame is out for the season (or longer if he injured his Achilles). I definitely don't want him to be injured, but his durability is nosediving and I can't imagine Giannis wanting to hang out in Milwaukee for this. Those pick swaps could possibly become pretty nice assets.

[Phalanx]

Our chances of pulling off a big trade just went up if Dame is out for the season (or longer if he injured his Achilles). I definitely don't want him to be injured, but his durability is nosediving and I can't imagine Giannis wanting to hang out in Milwaukee for this. Those pick swaps could possibly become pretty nice assets.

Not sure what you mean: a big trade for Giannis, or a big trade involving those future swaps? I don't think either scenario is likely - certainly you do not mean a trade for Lillard?

Sad outcome, but also predictable. I do feel a little sorry for Milwaukee. I know that the trade for Lillard allowed them to re-sign Giannis, but they never even got one full playoff series for the ridiculous millions they have to pay him. It was a desperation move for them and they will be paying for it for several years to come.

[pezsez1]

Not sure what you mean: a big trade for Giannis, or a big trade involving those future swaps? I don't think either scenario is likely - certainly you do not mean a trade for Lillard?

A trade involving the swaps. Those swaps will likely be lottery picks. The Blazers will need to pull some kind of rabbit out of their hat because they're unlikely to get another crack at a top 3 pick in a way that works with this rebuild. Bundle those swaps with some veterans who we desperately need to move (like Ant or Grant) and maybe we could knock someone loose.

I feel bad for Milwaukee because they committed to Dame's massive contract and will likely never get to him & Giannis truly play together in the playoffs. Last year Giannis was out, this year Dame was either out or not even close to 100% after rushing to return from the blood clot. (And he got hurt during the first round last year, too.) Just terrible luck for the Bucks & for Dame.

Regarding Milwaukee's future, Dame's contract isn't nearly as relevant as his injury (assuming it's his Achilles). That's a huge recovery for an injury-prone aging superstar with a fast-twitch game. He'll never be the same after this, and if anything he'll probably be even more at risk of injury even if he recovers. Can't imagine Giannis wanting to stay without a viable co-star. So looking ahead a year or two a rebuild almost feels inevitable. It won't really matter under those circumstances whether Dame is overpaid. He'll just become Milwaukee's Jerami Grant, only at least the Bucks will only have to wait two years into their rebuild for his contract to expire.

[Phalanx]

Regarding Milwaukee's future, Dame's contract isn't nearly as relevant as his injury (assuming it's his Achilles). That's a huge recovery for an injury-prone aging superstar with a fast-twitch game. He'll never be the same after this, and if anything he'll probably be even more at risk of injury even if he recovers. Can't imagine Giannis wanting to stay without a viable co-star. So looking ahead a year or two a rebuild almost feels inevitable. It won't really matter under those circumstances whether Dame is overpaid. He'll just become Milwaukee's Jerami Grant, only at least the Bucks will only have to wait two years into their rebuild for his contract to expire.

I've tried over and over to explain this concept to you, and you will never get it. Of course his contract matters, just like Grant's contract matters. It will hamstring the Bucks for the next two years and prevent them from putting a team around Giannis that can win, and he will likely want to leave as a result. The best teams are the ones who can manage salaries such that as many great players can be on the team as possible. Lillard is a $113 million millstone around their necks, as I predicted he would be. It isn't 'bad luck' it is inevitability. I thought maybe the Bucks would get two good years of Lillard before rigor mortis set in, and they never even got the two. Lillard was injured last year in the first round of the playoffs, and again this year, just like he was injured for two consecutive years prior to that for the Blazers.

Cronin likely saw this outcome as well and wanted to include swaps in the trade - a genius move. The only problem is they may be a bit too far out, 2028 and 2030. If Milwaukee starts their rebuild too soon, they might be able to partially recover by then by trading Giannis.

By the way, wouldn't it be the ultimate irony if the Bucks traded Giannis to the Blazers? I'm not sure what it would take, but only a few teams likely have the combination of cap space, picks, and prospects necessary to do a deal like that, and the Blazers might be one of them. Just a pipe dream, but man, would that be epic. They would have Lillard and Portland would have Giannis. Offer them pick 10, their swaps back, Grant, RW3 and Sharpe.

Scoot/ Banton
Simons/ Thybulle
Avdija/ Murray
Giannis/ Camara
Ayton/ Clingan

There is even room under the tax to sign a free agent. Is that a contender? Okay, enough dreaming.