Blazers

[Phalanx]

I said that Simons stepped in and was able to replace Lillard's 30 ppg by hucking up lots of shots like Lillard did. I am not comparing them as players. You can distort arguments, you can insult my intelligence, and yet the stubborn facts remain. Lillard has been a failure on two teams, leaving them both much worse off than how he found them.

I asked Grok who the most overpaid NBA player in history relative to playoff success is. You'll never guess what name was at the top of the list.

[pezsez1]

Lillard has been a failure on two teams

That's utterly ridiculous. So in your opinion the only Blazers who haven't been failures are those on the '77 championship team? I think I know what Grok would have to say about that.

But hey, let's all just bask in the unprecedented success of the Anfernee Simons Era.

[pezsez1]

The craziest thing about Anfernee Simons is we could have traded him for AARON GORDON. What a missed opportunity!

[Phalanx]

Oh man, Giannis is definitely asking for a trade after that game. Go get him, Cronin!

[pezsez1]

Oh man, Giannis is definitely asking for a trade after that game. Go get him, Cronin!

The more I think about this the more I actually like the idea. We could get him without giving up a single core piece if we involved some combination of Ant/Grant/RWIII/Ayton and Milwaukee's own picks, which it would LOVE to have back heading into a rebuild.

I'll pitch you an idea though that I know is going to raise your body temp a few degrees... trade all four of those veterans for Giannis AND Dame!

I know the mere thought of Dame coming back would send you into a rage, but just think about it -- we could move four dudes who shouldn't be here anyway and get two superstars in return. Dame could be the #3 scoring option in a lineup like this, hell he could even be sixth man if Scoot steps up next season. On paper, this could be the best-possible team Portland might ever field for what's left of our lives. This would be the ultimate "thread the needle" move. There's no other combination of trades that would net us two players of this caliber while leaving our core and most of our future draft assets intact.

And as much as you hate Dame's massive contract, imagine how eager Milwaukee might be to get out from under it as they head into a full-on rebuild.

The obvious catch is Dame is likely out all of next season, so the goal here would be playoffs in 2026 and winning a title in 2027. This is a two-year rental plan with a legit shot at a title in Year #2.

The hitch that I haven't thought about too deeply is how having two supermax contracts would limit our ability to retain our young core. I don't know when everyone's deals expire. But after that 2027 season then Dame's contract would come off the books (I think Giannis' too) and we'd have enough salary to pay anyone we'd want to keep beyond that.

OK, let me have it! Tell me why this idea is terrible or what might be a better use of our assets to capitalize on a Giannis trade.

[Phalanx]

You're missing the poetry of the situation. The Blazers, after years of caving to Lillard's demands to trade the future away for temporary rental players, were a hollowed out shell of a team- a proud franchise had become the laughing stock of the league, and then the very player that management had whored themselves out for began threatening to leave, with Stephen A. Idiot leading the charge to get him out of Portland and onto a 'real team'. So the vulture teams started circling. The first team actually started restructuring their roster before there was even a trade deal because they were so confident that Lillard and his agent could bully Portland into giving him away for a song, leaving behind a dismasted wreck that would take years to fix without the benefit of a trade package to kickstart the rebuild. Other vultures followed, and finally, a team that was itself desperate to hold onto their star made a decent offer and Cronin managed to turn that offer into a jumpstart on a new era. Milwaukee fans gleefully danced on Portland's grave and heralded the dawn of multiple championship runs with a supposedly reloaded team.

Fast forward two years and now the tables have turned. Instead of winning championships, Lillard brought the same snake-bitten rotten contract he had infested the Blazers with, such that they had the worst two years a team could possibly have. Losing and making the lottery would have been better - at least there would be lottery picks, but instead, they made the playoffs before melting in the first round both years, and the sub-par picks have been traded away. The coup de grace is Lillard, having solidified his exorbitant pay for the next two years, has now sustained an injury that will plausibly keep him riding the bench for the next year. He could not have screwed that team more if he was trying. Meanwhile, with Lillard finally gone, the Blazers have been collecting assets and more favorable contracts than they have had for a decade, and Cronin did this very sly thing in trading for two years of unprotected swaps that look for all the world like golden tickets now. It's like he shorted private MBS circa 2007. Suddenly, he is in the unique position of being able to dangle these swaps in a trade back to the Bucks. Hey Milwaukee, sorry that nuclear bomb just went off in your front yard; let us help you like you helped us. Tell you what, you keep 'superstar' Lillard, and we will help you with that other guy who wants out now. We'll even throw in Lillard's buddy Grant and one of those 19-year olds that Lillard was dying to play with on his timeline. You want Billups too? Lillard's favorite coach. Bahahaha!!

Taking Lillard back would be idiocy, like recovering from cancer and then taking a stroll through Fukushima again.

[pezsez1]

Taking Lillard back would be idiocy, like recovering from cancer and then taking a stroll through Fukushima again.

Damn, son!

[Phalanx]

Finally got the chance to listen to Cronin and Billups in their exit interview from a few weeks ago and a few interesting nuggets of info:

1. Chauncey admitted when he took the job he was ill-prepared to lead a team to contention and has had to learn on the job. (You don't say).

2. Chauncey explained that the team is built not to rely on one star but on multiple guys who play defense and score as a unit. He went on later to say that the 'star' player that conventional wisdom dictates a team must have may already be on the team. He mentioned Deni and Sharpe as possible candidates, as well as leveling up by Scoot, Ant, and Ayton this season. (I think he mentioned Simons in case Orlando might be listening?)

3. They talked about how the Blazers were the fourth best defensive team in the league over the second half of the season, after being the fourth worst in the first half. Chauncey said they were so bad early in the season, he told the team he was only going to play those who played defense. He said that really gave them cause for reflection and they started playing better. (Hmmm - maybe shoulda led with that?)

4. Cronin says the playoffs are the goal next season (sorry Pez), but let's see what draft/free agency/ trades happen this summer to see if that is a realistic goal. By now, most fans who are paying attention have heard Jake Fischer talking about how the Blazers intend to be active on the trade market. We'll see. Cronin answered a follow-up question by saying he thought the playoffs were a 'reasonable expectation' for next season.

5. Cronin says they learned a lot about their roster this year after not learning much the previous year. Interesting. He says it helps in evaluating specific players and skillsets to add.

6. Chauncey answering a question about the rarity of losing as much as they have the last four years and still both signing extensions said he and Joe have known each other since high school. Looks like they both grew up in Denver. I did not know that.

7. Chauncey says the team is starting to take on his personality and he views this as a huge leap forward. (Interesting that this coincides with the first full season of no Lillard around).

Overall, it seems like both guys really believe they have accomplished something together this year and are in the midst of major leveling-up, even to the point of congratulating themselves. Also, it seems like Cronin believes there will be a number of moves made this offseason, moves that will be less about general rebuilding and more directed to specific areas of improvement after having a core in place. I also got a very strong sense that now that Lillard is gone, these guys both feel like they can finally do what they have been wanting to do, rather than being stuck trying to placate the team diva and 'his timeline'. The clouds have parted and the future looks brighter.

[squintsdd]

3. They talked about how the Blazers were the fourth best defensive team in the league over the second half of the season, after being the fourth worst in the first half. Chauncey said they were so bad early in the season, he told the team he was only going to play those who played defense. He said that really gave them cause for reflection and they started playing better. (Hmmm - maybe shoulda led with that?)

No no no, this part can't be true. Rumor has it teams were tanking in the second half of the season.

[pezsez1]

No no no, this part can't be true. Rumor has it teams were tanking in the second half of the season.

Both things can be true. The Blazers did feast upon a bunch of really bad teams while continuing to struggle against good teams. And several of those really bad teams were literally pulling their starters in the fourth quarters while we kept ours on the floor. (What's that called when teams do that? Hmmm.) We beat a couple of really good teams that were playing without their best players. It is what it is.

It's also true though that we won those games against bad teams with our young core leading the way -- and that by itself is worthy of praise.

All I'm saying is Blazer fans shouldn't get too high on their own supply, because there's a big difference between beating bad teams vs. beating teams playoff teams with more consistency. I mean let's be real, if you dropped these Blazers who beat Toronto's bench players at the buzzer into a series against any western conference playoff team (except maybe the 8 seed), it would get mauled. Probably swept in blowout fashion. (And that's fine for now, because it would be ridiculous to think this young core is ready for that kind of smoke.)

This team must take significant steps to avoid another decade of playoff futility. Good vibes don't win titles.

Cronin says he's going to make some moves to improve the roster, and that's great. Now let's see if he finally does what he says he's trying to do. And let's see if the moves he makes are enough to move the needle and not simply Olshey-esque moves around the margins.

This team can and should aim for the playoffs next year -- again, all well and good, as tanking no longer makes sense -- but will they actually get to the playoffs? Probably not, but we'll see.

[pezsez1]

Since we're all up on AI in this thread, I asked Grok to predict next season's playoff and playin-teams. Blazers were left out of both lists. But (for several reasons) I do think it's interesting to look at the teams Grok chose for the play-in:

Dallas Mavericks - Despite Luka Dončić’s brilliance, the Mavericks struggled in 2025, barely making the play-in as the No. 10 seed before losing to the Lakers. Without significant upgrades to support Dončić and Kyrie Irving, they may again hover around the 7-10 range.

Phoenix Suns - Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, and Bradley Beal give Phoenix a high ceiling, but their 2025 absence from the playoffs and injury concerns suggest they could land in the play-in mix, likely fighting for a 7-8 seed if they regain consistency.

San Antonio Spurs - Victor Wembanyama’s rapid development makes the Spurs a rising threat. Their 2025 season showed promise but not enough for a top-six seed. With young talent and Gregg Popovich’s coaching, they’re a strong candidate for a 9-10 seed play-in spot.

New Orleans Pelicans - Zion Williamson’s health remains the X-factor. Their 2025 season ended outside the playoffs, and while Brandon Ingram and a solid supporting cast offer potential, inconsistency could place them in the 8-9 seed range, scrapping for a play-in berth.

Why is this interesting?

1) Luka doesn't play for the Mavs anymore.

2) The three other teams here face a ton of question marks. With rosters as they are now, all four of these teams are relying on heavily injury-prone superstars to have any real shot at success. (Wemby may not be a merit-based superstar yet, but the Spurs without him are cooked.)

I'm actually going to go on the record here and predict the Blazers will make the play-in, but not the playoffs. Even if Cronin continues to struggle to flip our vets for assets, the Blazers' young core should have a higher floor and more consistency than either of these four teams going into the season, and there's no way all four of those teams stay healthy. That will create an opening for Portland.

Things could change, too. New Orleans has great odds for a high lottery pick in this loaded draft. The Spurs could get lucky again and give Wemby a wingman. Phoenix could blow things up, but if it does then its talent will likely end up on established contending rosters, making playoff success even tougher (but make getting to the play-in easier).

Or maybe Portland pulls an Atlanta and lands Cooper Flagg, and off we'd go toward eventual title contention.

[Phalanx]

Yeah, I found that Grok is terrible at analysis - the stats are garbled even when it references the right websites for info. Questions regarding user sentiment are better, such as 'Which player does not belong on the 75th Anniversary list'. Lillard is always the first name on the generated list.


Regarding playoff predictions - despite the tanking toward the end of the season, the Blazers were still 23-18 in the second half. I think there is significant room for optimism in that stat, especially with Ayton (only 40 games played this season) and others out for long stretches of that time period (Grant 47 games, RW3 20 games). I also agree that winning in the playoffs is another thing. I think I am with Cronin - let's wait to see how the summer goes and what the roster looks like this fall.

[pezsez1]

I think there is significant room for optimism in that stat, especially with Ayton (only 40 games played this season) and others out for long stretches of that time period (Grant 47 games, RW3 20 games).

That's IF those veterans are around next season, and hopefully they're not.

I'm actually a big fan of Ayton's game, and the Blazers are absolutely better when he's on the floor, but he wants to be a max contract player and that's going to be a problem. He's not enough of a star or a team leader to deserve that kind of money. His mindset and consistency are issues. He's not a great passer and lacks a three-point shot. He's great at what he does, but he's pretty one-dimensional. I'd happily keep him with a more team-friendly deal but that doesn't seem to be his mindset at all. Just seems like a massive headache waiting to happen and not sure it's worth it given how well Clingan played in his rookie year for a fraction of the cost.

Also, this team played some of its best ball when those vets were on the bench. The future should be about this young core, and hopefully all moves are made with this core group in mind. Grant is redundant (love his Instagram though) & Simons just isn't that great of a PG (Scoot is closing in on him after just two years in the league). So to say we need to trade those vets isn't a call to tank... it's a recognition of this core's potential & understanding that these vets are mostly in the way of progress.

Maybe we win a handful of extra games if Ayton is still here, but I don't think we'd miss Grant or Simons one bit. (And if they're still here in the fall, then whose minutes are they taking?)

EDIT: And yes, Grok/ChatGPT is pretty awful at analysis. It's basically just a prettier version of Google at this point. Definitely not there yet.

[Phalanx]

I'm actually a big fan of Ayton's game, and the Blazers are absolutely better when he's on the floor, but he wants to be a max contract player and that's going to be a problem. He's not enough of a star or a team leader to deserve that kind of money. His mindset and consistency are issues. He's not a great passer and lacks a three-point shot. He's great at what he does, but he's pretty one-dimensional. I'd happily keep him with a more team-friendly deal but that doesn't seem to be his mindset at all. Just seems like a massive headache waiting to happen and not sure it's worth it given how well Clingan played in his rookie year for a fraction of the cost.

Hold on, who posted this, and what have you done with Pez?

I feel like we are making some progress here.

[squintsdd]

I think there is significant room for optimism in that stat, especially with Ayton (only 40 games played this season) and others out for long stretches of that time period (Grant 47 games, RW3 20 games).

That's IF those veterans are around next season, and hopefully they're not.

I'm actually a big fan of Ayton's game, and the Blazers are absolutely better when he's on the floor, but he wants to be a max contract player and that's going to be a problem. He's not enough of a star or a team leader to deserve that kind of money. His mindset and consistency are issues. He's not a great passer and lacks a three-point shot. He's great at what he does, but he's pretty one-dimensional. I'd happily keep him with a more team-friendly deal but that doesn't seem to be his mindset at all. Just seems like a massive headache waiting to happen and not sure it's worth it given how well Clingan played in his rookie year for a fraction of the cost.

Also, this team played some of its best ball when those vets were on the bench. The future should be about this young core, and hopefully all moves are made with this core group in mind. Grant is redundant (love his Instagram though) & Simons just isn't that great of a PG (Scoot is closing in on him after just two years in the league). So to say we need to trade those vets isn't a call to tank... it's a recognition of this core's potential & understanding that these vets are mostly in the way of progress.

Maybe we win a handful of extra games if Ayton is still here, but I don't think we'd miss Grant or Simons one bit. (And if they're still here in the fall, then whose minutes are they taking?)

EDIT: And yes, Grok/ChatGPT is pretty awful at analysis. It's basically just a prettier version of Google at this point. Definitely not there yet.

If this were the 90s or early 2000s, I would love to have Ayton. Oddly enough, i actually still would love to have him. He is what Oden was suppose to be. Now though, his game doesn't translate to the NBA all that well. Like you said, he's good at what he does, but what he does is limited and can easily be done by other guys on the team now. With how often he's missing games and his inconsistency, he'd be great to have come off the bench for 25 to 30 minutes a game, but he doesn't want that.