Florida resident indicted by NY DA

[StevensTechU]

I did think for myself, which is why I didn't go anywhere near legacy media. Just watch the video without commentary. If you do, you might notice that in the seconds right after the ICE agent pushes the woman into the snow, the man has a choice - go help her or go toward the agent and get into a physical altercation with him. Unfortunately, he broke toward the agent, and that was his mistake, because it gave the pack of agents all the excuse they needed - that and the presence of his gun - to do what they did. He did nothing worthy of being killed IMO, but if I am counseling my own kids, I would tell them not to go near federal agents while they are doing their job.

I took you off my block list just to see this one message and it did not disappoint. You whittling you argument down to saying this guy is at fault because - even though he generally tries his best to stay out of the agent's way - he instinctively helped a woman when a man shoves her into the snow tells us all that you wouldn't have. It's an incredible admission of your own character. "If I saw a woman being pushed down, I would have no emotional reaction and instead walk away. I don't instinctively help those in need, especially women." I appreciate the clarity that you've presented yourself as both not interested in truth and being so cowardly that not only do you not aim to protect women but you judge other guys for protecting women.

[Phalanx]

I took you off my block list just to see this one message and it did not disappoint. You whittling you argument down to saying this guy is at fault because - even though he generally tries his best to stay out of the agent's way - he instinctively helped a woman when a man shoves her into the snow tells us all that you wouldn't have. It's an incredible admission of your own character. "If I saw a woman being pushed down, I would have no emotional reaction and instead walk away. I don't instinctively help those in need, especially women." I appreciate the clarity that you've presented yourself as both not interested in truth and being so cowardly that not only do you not aim to protect women but you judge other guys for protecting women.

I have multiple daughters and a wife who have been under my protection for over 25 years now. Do you? You know nothing about me, and your comments are ignorant and stupid. As for being cowardly, that is an absolute joke coming from someone who can't even withstand a rebuttal without blocking them.

I am sorry that this man was shot, but it is lazy and even childish thinking to just automatically blame authorities without looking into the matter with an open mind, which I have done. I find that the man contributed to the escalation of the situation, and in fact, it turns out he is part of a large group of people in that state who are dedicated to escalating situations involving ICE/CPB. So you can think what you want, but your inferences about me personally are over the top stupidity.

[dthomas=ddixon]

Yeah… from my view, Pettri’s actions were objectively good and virtuous. He put into practice what I would consider the highest ideal—self-sacrificial love. Especially for a person who I would assume isn’t a loved one but a random, fellow citizen. Meaning, Petrri had nothing to gain—and everything to lose, clearly—by standing up for this woman.

Sadly, it seems as though our country is split into two different realities. The same event can be viewed and analyzed ad nauseam, and people will generally see two utterly separate things taking place.

[Phalanx]

Yeah… from my view, Pettri’s actions were objectively good and virtuous. He put into practice what I would consider the highest ideal—self-sacrificial love. Especially for a person who I would assume isn’t a loved one but a random, fellow citizen. Meaning, Petrri had nothing to gain—and everything to lose, clearly—by standing up for this woman.

Sadly, it seems as though our country is split into two different realities. The same event can be viewed and analyzed ad nauseam, and people will generally see two utterly separate things taking place.

I have a question about this. If the man is solely bent on protecting the woman, why is he pulling her into the scrum with him?

I don't pretend to know motives. I believe they are all part of the ICE-watch organization and they can all be seen blocking the roadway and blaring their whistles. I don't like the the CPB guy pushes her so hard; it seems like an overreaction to her blocking the roadway. However, she was blocking the roadway and trying to obstruct the operation. I don't assign 'highest ideals' to what any of them were doing. I think people see what they want to see. The interesting part to me is the vitriol one receives when one notices other details that don't fit the prevailing narrative.

[dd10snoop28]

I would agree that he was exhibiting all of the highest ideals of sacrificial love that you are bestowing on him if you strip away all context and only watch that 10 second clip.

Was the woman in that position because her intent was to purposefully be a deterrent and obstructing force to law enforcement? That seems to be the case. Which means that this "virtuous" man actually was wrong - just like the woman - for obstructing law enforcement.

Your post is operating under the fault assumption that this was a random woman innocuously walking down the street who randomly get mugged by criminals.

Unfortunately, based on the misrepresentation of the media/press, this man probably genuinely believed the same: that he was doing something noble by protecting this innocent woman from being murdered by law enforcement (as he has been told by the media). This man operated under the media-fed delusion that these agents are the bane of all evil and that this woman is a light in a dark place, and by placing himself between evil and good, he is exhibiting the highest forms of love.

Take a deep breath before responding to this post.

[dthomas=ddixon]

It’s remarkable how focused you both are on critiquing every movement and perceived misstep of the two protestors, as if that makes the actions of the federal agents less appalling. Just seems natural and relevant to focus on the actions of those who perpetrated all the violence and killing in this event. Which is what the rest of the thread is doing, and why they find your comments so outrageous.

What stands out most to me is the double standard being applied. In your framework, those in authority have expansive rights—to be unobstructed, unquestioned, and complied with—while simultaneously being held to a lower moral standard than civilians. Civilians must behave flawlessly under stress and if they don’t, agents of the state are permitted to use asymmetrical and lethal force to gain compliance, even when those actions are unjustified.

To be clear—I reject that framing entirely. Historically, in civilized society, those in authority are held to a higher standard, as their actions have greater consequences. You know, “to whom much is given, much is required.”

Ultimately, I think this comes down to a worldview/reality difference. Those who most value order and compliance with those in authority are going to see one thing, and those who most value human dignity and individual liberties see something else entirely.

[dd10snoop28]

Your worldview is confused.

One of the most elementary and basic functions of the federal government is sovereignty of a nation (i.e. borders and deportations).

Therefore, the federal agency is acting within its moral and legal duty to conduct mass deportations and to protect the border. This is an inherently and objectively good thing that is being by a 3-letter agency. Compare this to the objectively immoral and non-legal actions taken by the federal 3-letter agencies over the past 8 years, and the distinction is immediately clear.

Where conflict has arisen is governors, mayors, and local leaders actively working against the feredal government's duty to uphold the sovreignthy of our nation. Even before the current administration took office, all of these leading figures expressed their direct intent to resist law enforcement at each step to prevent them from carrying out deportations. This is crucial to understanding, and it is why this conflict that we are seeing is concentrated in large cities which are controlled by lunatic leaders.

People should revolt against the federal, state, or local governments when they reach the point where the ideals of governance are being violated.... not just whenever you don't like what is happening....and definitely not when the federal government is actually doing what it is supposed to be doing for the first time in a long time.

Your ideal of "human dignity" it inconsistent.....does your same dignity extend to all of the lives that have been negatively impacted via the immoral policy of open border? There have been thousands of deaths via murder and fentanyl due to the open-border policy. Additionally, there have been 17,000 arrests of illegal aliens that have committed theft, burglary, assaulting a law enforcement officer, and any crime that causes death or serious bodily injury since the current administration has taken office. Where is the human dignity for those who were assaulted/murdered by the illegals?

Shouldn't you be supporting the federal governments' actions to deport these people and protect the dignity of those who have been hurt by them?

[greenyellow]

Something I haven't seen mentioned is that most CCW permit holders know you have to act differently around law enforcement officers. Basic rules of thumb are don't get involved physically with LEOs, let them know you're carrying if they do talk with you, keep your hands away from the weapon and waistband at all times and don't physically resist if they do detain you. Also, you should have your ID and CCW permit on hand (both of which Pretti didn't have.)

[dd10snoop28]

What stands out most to me is the double standard being applied. In your framework, those in authority have expansive rights—to be unobstructed, unquestioned, and complied with—while simultaneously being held to a lower moral standard than civilians. Civilians must behave flawlessly under stress and if they don’t, agents of the state are permitted to use asymmetrical and lethal force to gain compliance, even when those actions are unjustified.

To be clear—I reject that framing entirely. Historically, in civilized society, those in authority are held to a higher standard, as their actions have greater consequences. You know, “to whom much is given, much is required.”

Huh? You think our constitution guarantees people the "right" to obstruct/question/resist against LEO's that are conducting deportation activities?

Your contextual misunderstanding of this situation is glaring.

This is not a low-risk situation where an officer is trespassing kids for setting up a lemonade stand on private property and then gets confronted by the mom of the kids setting up the stand....many of these operations conducted by LEOs are high-risk arrests because they relate to dangerous, hardened criminals which lead to high-pressure situations.

Here is the context for a LEO on any given day:
1- many of the days are high-risk operations
2- all of the local and state leaders are actively work to stymie the work that they are doing and use rhetoric that stokes their citizens to physically do the same. This not only prevents the LEO's from doing their job, but puts them in even more of a dangerous position of compromise when conducting operations to arrest criminal illegals.
3- in many cases, LEO's face threats of violence from the protestors/rioters/agitators (flashbangs, running over with car, attacking hotels where LEOs are staying at etc...)
4- in many cases, LEO's and their family are being doxxed and stalked personally to prevent them from doing the work

This man - along with many others - was led into a dangerous position by his "leaders" because he was told that these officers are evil, and that conducting the most basic function of the federal government is also violating "human dignity".

These are the people you should be enraged with (mayor of Minneapolic, governor of Minnesota etc...). Not the LEO's who are putting themselves in danger every day because they believe in the sovereignty of this nation.

You are probably the same person who would be bemoaning the Portland police officer that used his baton to shove over one of a mob of Antifa/BLM members that were behaving violently during the 2020 summer of love, while turning a blind eye to the chaos/mayhem/destruction being caused by these groups. EDIT: this part went too far. Apologies

[frogsnouts]

Something I haven't seen mentioned is that most CCW permit holders know you have to act differently around law enforcement officers. Basic rules of thumb are don't get involved physically with LEOs, let them know you're carrying if they do talk with you, keep your hands away from the weapon and waistband at all times and don't physically resist if they do detain you. Also, you should have your ID and CCW permit on hand (both of which Pretti didn't have.)

I just think straying off into this stuff runs close to victim blaming and bad faith arguments. Not saying you are trying to do that, just why I don’t think so many here are really interested in all the extra stuff. Thank god the guy wasn’t committed of any crimes before otherwise that would’ve been used to try to justify this as well.

To address though, what is he supposed to do? Start yelling he has a gun while being pepper sprayed? I can’t imagine that going well. I don’t see him reach for it in the videos so that’s not relevant. Would anyones opinion have changed if they found his ID and CCW card on the corpse? I think the obvious answer based on the last few pages is no.

I suggest everyone watch the slowed down version of the cop who fired the first shot. He starts from behind so it’s pretty possible he sees the gun, but for some reason also misses the other officer removing it from the guy and running off. He seems to see the missing gun after that and goes in for the shot from there, I would guess thinking that the guy got his hand on the gun himself and not the officer. The gun isn’t in his hands, because it never is, so he either mistakes a phone or glasses for a gun, or never checked to begin with.

Not aiming this at green yellow just don’t want to make a new post.

But it’s pretty clear though that nobody has likely changed an opinion on anything over this entire 20+ page thread. You can tell exactly who would support and not support the shooting before posting. If there’s another shooting today that’s even more blatant it’ll be the same people for and against, pretty much guaranteed. It’s actually pretty incredible to see the completely different views on the same video. Whole country should really separate into 3-4 different ones at this point, it’s pretty clear everyone is way too far gone in both directions

[greenyellow]

I wasn't saying he deserved to be shot and killed, but he (and many of these current protesters/observers) definitely haven't exhibited a whole lot of good common sense. Some think they can get away with acting antagonistically against LEOs and there being no consequences for their actions. Interfering with LEO operations (whether local, state, or ferderal) is not a good decision for anyone, which is why most people are told to stay away from them. Doing so while armed is even dumber.

There are definitely some groups who are hoping to sow discord and increase the temperature because they think it'll help their cause. It's also not helping that government leadership is lacking in Minnesota as ICE, Border Patrol, and other federal agencies have been conducting arrests and operations in other states with little to no problems. There's been a fundamental shift in how some view fraud, illegal immigration, and even basic rule of law that has been stoked by bad actors (namely biased media, social media and foreign bot accounts,) poor leadership, and one-sided fact-checking that has radicalized a portion of the population into thinking they need to be at DEFCON 1 at all times or the government needs to be overthrown because an election didn't go their way.

[Duck07]

Nothing like rape apologia. If you weren't dressed like that it wouldnt have happened...Thats the argument thats now being made by some on here.

Just wild the love for authoritarianism on here.

[Phalanx]

Quick question: Does anyone in this thread support the shooting? I have not seen a comment to this effect in this entire thread. So either I have bad reading skills or several other people in this thread do.

I just saw another angle for anyone interested. It may change my view a bit

https://x.com/MajToure999/status/2015546697963733187

In the other view, the first woman's body is blocking the initial contact between Pretti and the CPB agent. It looks for all the world like Pretti is bumping or pushing the agent away from the second women who had just been pushed. From this angle though, it seems like he only puts his hands up, possibly to block the pepper spray, and then he turns around. This angle looks much more damning for the agent. I still think Pretti should have gone to the woman instead of to the agent (and that he would still be alive if he had), but I can much more see why people believe he was just trying to protect her. What I still don't understand is why he drags her toward the street again. The agents are clearly trying to get the women off the street, and Pretti almost seems to be doing the opposite.

Maybe someone who was there will shed light on these things. I imagine there will be a court case, or at least I hope there will be.

[frogsnouts]

There are definitely some groups who are hoping to sow discord and increase the temperature because they think it'll help their cause. It's also not helping that government leadership is lacking in Minnesota as ICE, Border Patrol, and other federal agencies have been conducting arrests and operations in other states with little to no problems. There's been a fundamental shift in how some view fraud, illegal immigration, and even basic rule of law that has been stoked by bad actors (namely biased media, social media and foreign bot accounts,) poor leadership, and one-sided fact-checking that has radicalized a portion of the population into thinking they need to be at DEFCON 1 at all times or the government needs to be overthrown because an election didn't go their way.

Increase the temperature is a good way of putting it. I’d be pretty surprised if a lot of those bots aren’t foreign too. Plenty of domestic support for the bots pushing both sides. That’s why I brought up the talking points a few pages back. You can see the right wing ones pushing the same few points on this shooting, and you can see the left wing ones pushing the opposite. I think anyone who throws out enough of those is probably a bad faith actor whether they want to believe it or not. Everyone can replace their main stream media content with far, far worse sources. Just because it’s not ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX doesn’t mean it’s better.

If anyone has Facebook I suggest going to some of your local/county level political pages for both sides and reading through the comments. Those are usually not bots and actual real people. It’s amazing how no matter which side you’ll see dozens of posts about how xyz election was stolen because of xyz reason, or how a future election will be stolen if they lose because of xyz reason. Just a shocking belief system that they believe it’s actually impossible for their side to lose fairly and that they are 100% justified/the correct choice, without fail.

[greenyellow]

Nothing like rape apologia. If you weren't dressed like that it wouldnt have happened...Thats the argument thats now being made by some on here.

Just wild the love for authoritarianism on here.

Not even close to the same thing. Good and Pretti were not completely innocent bystanders who got attacked out of the blue like rape/crime victims. They were actively participating in events and groups that were impeding or interrupting law enforcement operations. Being antagonistic and physical with federal agents in already tense situations is never a smart move and there were bound to be some bad incidents. Having people like governors, mayors, or AGs tell people to get in ICE/Border Patrol/DHS agents' faces or that they're not real LEOs also didn't help cool things down.