Blazers

[Duck07]

The Blazers, after tanking the last three years, were too good to keep losing enough games to get a top 5 pick. It's ridiculous to ask them to keep playing below their skill level year after year. That, and it is also in violation of NBA rules.

I don't believe they will make the play-in now, but let's not forget that even if they made it, they would have to beat two teams to make the playoffs and be out of the lottery. So from here, in order to not get a lottery pick, we would be watching:

1. The Blazers beat some really good teams left on the 22-game schedule to even catch Sacramento, Minnesota or Dallas by 5 games.

2. Win two games in the play-in

3. A playoff series.

All of that is better for fans than the demoralizing weeks of tanking we have seen already the past three seasons. I watch games hoping my team wins, not hoping they lose so that maybe they can win years in the future.

P.S. The Blazers are better this season than they were the last two years before they 'traded their star'. So maybe fans who still have Lillard posters in their bedrooms can pipe down about the trade. It worked. Pez

If you're going to pop off pedantic replies maybe you could at least get the formatting right?

[pezsez1]

The way streaming services work, there is no such thing as small market anymore.

This comment is weaker than Phalanx's post, which is saying something.

[squintsdd]

It will always amaze me that people want to root for their team lose for years on the idea that they MIGHT get the opportunity at POTENTIAL talent 2 draft classes away, rather than rooting for the current to team to play hard and try to win. I will never be able to wrap my head around it

It will always amaze me that people want to root for Billionaires to mismanage a franchise while expecting the fans to continue to pour their hard-earned money and energy into a product they don't find entertaining at all as if they somehow "owe it" to the Owners.

Portland is in fact a small market and streaming services don't change that and the Blazers canned a legitimate Director of Broadcasting in Jeff Curtin to downsize their production and save money. This is done because while there is the revenue-sharing within the league that props every team up, the Blazers don't get the local Revenue that large markets get which allow them to continually spend in the luxury tax.

We can pick a list of points to start this discussion on why a decent amount of fans are pissed but ultimately it lies with the simple fact that they continue to run Gr/Ant on the floor which takes away from the young Guards and Forwards ever being able to thrive/fail on their own. Most every single one of the fans upset about having kept Gr/Ant for the last 2 years would absolutely be thrilled to watch this team play hard win or lose but expecting Gr/Ant to continue to be The Guys going forward is absurd and is a slap in the face to a fan-base that is considered league-wide to be among the most knowledgeable and passionate. Crapping on those kind of fans is how you alienate an important part of your market too.

I agree with Pez that this was supposed to have been the final "tank/minutes for youth" year because of the top-end talent in the draft but the failure to move Gr/Ant means that the group of fans who think they are now actively "striving for mediocrity" seem pretty prescient. Telling those people you can't wrap your head around it doesn't really indicate you understand the situation in the slightest.

I've been pretty outspoken that the team needs to be sold and management is a huge issue. Nobody owes them anything, so I'm not sure where that came from. They owe the fans a decent product, or at least the best available product. Currently the best available product is what you're seeing. Mismanagement has lead to this current situation, but at least they haven't pulled the plug and are trying to give the fans the best of what is currently here. That said, fire the current brass and sell the team.

I've also been outspoken about getting rid of Grant and Simons both, that should've been done years ago. It's unfortunate to say that playing them offers the best chance of winning currently, so they're going to get the minutes on a team that hasn't pulled the plug on the season yet.

The fact of the matter is that the more a team wins, the more they will be viewed. Teams that tank year after year don't get tv time, and their fan base won't watch them, unless they're absolute diehard fans. Teams that win, regardless of where they're at, get tv time because they're competitive, fun to watch, and their fanbase is engaged.

I ask again, if they were to get a top 3 pick, and the pick that everyone wants doesn't work out, would you still request 3 years of tanking until another decent draft came around?

[pezsez1]

The fact of the matter is that the more a team wins, the more they will be viewed. Teams that tank year after year don't get tv time, and their fan base won't watch them, unless they're absolute diehard fans. Teams that win, regardless of where they're at, get tv time because they're competitive, fun to watch, and their fanbase is engaged.

Agree with everything you said before this part 100%.

Re: Losing the fanbase... I don't see it. Fans tune out when teams lose and tune in when they win. If the Blazers win, the fans will come back. But we just saw the tail end of a very long period of playoff futility where fans grew increasingly frustrated with "just making the playoffs" and having no real hope of anything greater. I think most Blazer fans want to do more than be a spunky little team that might scrape into a low playoff seeding. I wasn't alive for Blazer Mania back in the 70s, but I do vividly remember the Rip City insanity of the early 90s, and that didn't simply happen because people loved the team -- it happened because we were REALLY GOOD and had the talent to win a title. Streaming is a nice tool, but it's pretty meaningless if people don't believe the team will ever contend for a title. Chasing the title is the underlying quest in all of sports. If that's not the goal, then what are we doing?

I ask again, if they were to get a top 3 pick, and the pick that everyone wants doesn't work out, would you still request 3 years of tanking until another decent draft came around?

No. You take advantage of this generationally loaded draft and then you play and see what you've got. If after a year or two it's clear this roster doesn't have a bona fide all-star/leader, then you start trading assets and aiming to capitalize on the draft again. It's crucial to have THAT GUY who could be the #1 option on a championship team, and guys like that don't need more than a couple of seasons to stand out, if even that.

We'll never sign THAT GUY as a free agent and we don't have the assets to get him in a trade. It must happen through the draft. We have no chance at a title until we get THAT GUY in the draft. It doesn't have to be a top 3 pick... guys like that are often found within the top 10. It simply has to happen though. There's no way around it.

Once you think you have THAT GUY, then you just let it ride and see what happens over the next five years. Things fizzle out or peak? Then you start over again.

[Merganzer]

No. You take advantage of this generationally loaded draft and then you play and see what you've got. If after a year or two it's clear this roster doesn't have a bona fide all-star/leader, then you start trading assets and aiming to capitalize on the draft again. It's crucial to have THAT GUY who could be the #1 option on a championship team, and guys like that don't need more than a couple of seasons to stand out, if even that.

We'll never sign THAT GUY as a free agent and we don't have the assets to get him in a trade. It must happen through the draft. We have no chance at a title until we get THAT GUY in the draft. It doesn't have to be a top 3 pick... guys like that are often found within the top 10. It simply has to happen though. There's no way around it.

Once you think you have THAT GUY, then you just let it ride and see what happens over the next five years. Things fizzle out or peak? Then you start over again.

Absolutely, making the Playoffs, but never having a chance to win the championship is a horrible fan environment. The season is already too long, players/fans, waiting for the Playoffs, but not if your team is perpetually out in the 1st round. The draft is the only way the Blazers will get top talent, and build from there. If it doesn't work, the next draft is the next chance.

[squintsdd]

I also don't understand how some of you think the draft is the only way to build. You may be hard pressed to get a star through free agency here, but decent roll players are very accessible. Then go the way of trader Bob and trade for that number one option. Portland has several draft picks in the near future that they can trade, along side guys like Simons and/or grant, or even Ayton

[StevensTechU]

I don't catch as many games as I used to, but in watching the game today I found myself thinking that's the hardest I've seen two teams play in the first half of an NBA team in a long time. I don't hate it.

[droop10]

I also don't understand how some of you think the draft is the only way to build. You may be hard pressed to get a star through free agency here, but decent roll players are very accessible. Then go the way of trader Bob and trade for that number one option. Portland has several draft picks in the near future that they can trade, along side guys like Simons and/or grant, or even Ayton

There are zero teams outside of the destination cities in the NBA that weren’t built through the draft. OKC would be the closest exception, but only because they traded for SGA, but he was far from a number 1 option at that time. Decent role players will tend to gravitate to teams with stars on them. In this era of player empowerment, even trading for a number 1 option is near impossible, because players tend to dictate desired locations, using the leverage of not being willing to resign with other teams if traded there.

The grim reality is that NBA players don’t care to live in Portland. Given the way contracts are structured in the NBA, their only chance to keep a star is by being able to pay more via the max contract, but that’s often not an option when trading for a guy, because it happens late in their contract. Like it or not, there is no scenario where the Blazers become legitimately competitive outside of striking gold through the draft.

[Merganzer]

Agree with everything in droop10's post, it's interesting that two games ago, the Cavaliers found themselves down 25-3 against the Celtics and came back to win. Against the Blazers, they were behind again, by as much as 18, 10 going into the 4th quarter, but ended up beating the Blazers, 124-120 in OT, so it goes with the Blazers.

[Phalanx]

The way streaming services work, there is no such thing as small market anymore.

This comment is weaker than Phalanx's post, which is saying something.

Nothing here is weaker than arguing that the Blazers should lose all season on purpose for the 4th season in a row, and this from the guy who argued for several seasons that Portland should trade its draft picks away for temporary players just to make Lillard happy. All of a sudden you like draft picks.

I have been arguing in favor of building via the draft for years, but it isn't the only way to improve the team. Originating smart, tradeable contracts and making good trades at opportune times are other ways. Ayton and Camara came via a stellar trade, as was the trade that brought Nurk to Portland. If Cronin didn't see a good trade for Grant or Ant, I believe him, because he pulled off same great trades last year. I just wish he wasn't such a free agent idiot. I wonder if he thinks to himself, "Why can't I trade these guys? Who is the moron who made these contracts? Oh yeah, it was me."

[pezsez1]

Nothing here is weaker than arguing that the Blazers should lose all season on purpose for the 4th season in a row, and this from the guy who argued for several seasons that Portland should trade its draft picks away for temporary players just to make Lillard happy. All of a sudden you like draft picks.

I'm for choosing a path and committing to it, not this "threading the needle" BS which they did with Lillard and are now doing with our young core.

If you're going to tank, then tank, don't sorta-tank and then potentially miss out on a lottery pick in the best draft we'll see in a while. What's the hurry to potentially make the play-in in order to get our asses kicked by OKC? That's just dumb, and you know it.

[squintsdd]

Nothing here is weaker than arguing that the Blazers should lose all season on purpose for the 4th season in a row, and this from the guy who argued for several seasons that Portland should trade its draft picks away for temporary players just to make Lillard happy. All of a sudden you like draft picks.

I'm for choosing a path and committing to it, not this "threading the needle" BS which they did with Lillard and are now doing with our young core.

If you're going to tank, then tank, don't sorta-tank and then potentially miss out on a lottery pick in the best draft we'll see in a while. What's the hurry to potentially make the play-in in order to get our asses kicked by OKC? That's just dumb, and you know it.

Ah yes, if you really want to bring a fan base back that's already disgruntled, just choose the option of "let's be a bad as possible for multiple years, and hope we luck out in the draft."

The option you want relies on failing and then being lucky, rather than the option of being smart by making team friendly, tradable contracts, and doing research on which free agents they can bring in that can help the team succeed. There's nothing like bringing in a defensive minded head coach and then telling him his best scorer is the worst defender in the league, but i suppose deep down you probably want to keep Simons; after all, they got him through the draft.

I'm not saying the draft isn't necessary, but if that's what you're relying on, just expect a lot more losing seasons

[Phalanx]

If you're going to tank, then tank, don't sorta-tank and then potentially miss out on a lottery pick in the best draft we'll see in a while. What's the hurry to potentially make the play-in in order to get our asses kicked by OKC? That's just dumb, and you know it.

I have done no number-crunching but looking at the remaining schedule, it is probably the most difficult in the NBA or near the top. If they are able to catch up by 5 games with that schedule, they are too good to tank. From there, if they can then win two games to actually make the playoffs, they are good enough to be one of the playoff teams. I don't want to play OKC and give Chicago the best possible pick either - I made a post about this earlier. But dude, that would be an amazing stretch run to even get that far. I would bet a lot of money it won't happen, so you can unclench. The Blazers are likely to get around pick 10-12. Maybe they can do that Zach Collins routine again. Tanking is so effective as a winning strategy.

[pezsez1]

It's not even all about them winning, but like why is Simons getting so many minutes? It just doesn't make sense. Is he really our PG of the future? Is Scoot just an afterthought now? Anfernee isn't good enough to be the best scorer on a championship team, so what are we doing? What's the plan here?

Why haven't we managed to move ANY of our veterans other than Brog?

I'd feel better about the Blazers fighting for the play-in if the organization didn't feel like a rudderless ship. I still don't think Cronin has any real plan, he's just kind of bobbing on the waves and reacting to whatever circumstances come up -- which is fine for a while, but it's been like three or four years now, really ever since Jody promoted him.

Threading the needle, rudderless ship, etc. I just want this organization to actually choose a path toward optimizing an outcome and stick with it. Anything else is almost certain to amount to a giant waste of time. I said this earlier too, but the most likely outcome right now is we won't get the star we need in the draft and we'll end up overpaying for some other borderline all-star again who will make some fans happy but won't actually bring us closer to a title. Then we'll end up blowing things up again in another 5-7 years. I just don't see the logic when we could be spending this time investing fully in development while also passively improving our draft odds.

[Phalanx]

I'm not sure what plan would make you happy. To me, I would be happy if more of the contracts were performing. Thybulle and RW3 are 23.5 million that never play, $25 million next year. With Camara and Avdija playing so well on tiny contracts, and Sharpe, Scoot, and Clingan still on their rookie deals, the team really could be great if not for some bad deals.

PG Scoot
SG Sharpe
SF Avdija
PF Camara
C. Ayton, Clingan

This, along with the pocket lint on the bench, totals around 86 million in salary next year. The other 84 million goes to Grant, Simons, RW3 and Thybulle. Just let that sink in. Instead of those four, what if the Blazers had that $84 million to sign some free agents? Who would you sign? That is the opportunity that is going to waste because Cronin sucks at contracts.