Ducks Attack Message Board Forum

Is putting 12 men on the field any different (ethically) then faking an injury? I think it was brilliant and I hated when other teams faked injuries to slow the ducks down.

Is it different than hurrying up to get a play off before a catch or ball placement is reviewed?

Depends on how you look at it. You can also compare it to a team purposefully taking a delay of game penalty in order to milk every last second of clock and/or give their punter more room to kick. Is it within the "spirit" of the rules to purposefully take a delay of game penalty? Who cares? I don't view it as being any sort of ethical dilemma. Whatever the rules are, you do whatever you can do to win within those rules, including taking any penalty that comes with your action. In this case, it was a 5 yard penalty. If you view your actions as being worth the penalty, why wouldn't you do it? If people don't like the rules, then change the rules and the coaches will adjust to whatever rules you put forth.

Personally, I thought it was brilliant, if intentional.

That said, it's not the kind of football plays that I'd like the Ducks to be known for long term.

The two aren’t even in the same category and I’m surprised this is even a discussion in sports land.

We committed an infraction and were penalized for it. End of story. Intent is irrelevant because we didn’t get away with anything. It’s no different than intentionally committing pass interference in order to prevent a bigger gain (something tOSU did twice in this game, btw). No one’s crying foul over those “intentional” penalties.

Faking injuries is completely different because it involves using deception to gain an advantage, and there’s no way to penalize it. It’s the definition of cheating.

dthomas=ddixon wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:17 pm The two aren’t even in the same category and I’m surprised this is even a discussion in sports land.

We committed an infraction and were penalized for it. End of story. Intent is irrelevant because we didn’t get away with anything. It’s no different than intentionally committing pass interference in order to prevent a bigger gain (something tOSU did twice in this game, btw). No one’s crying foul over those “intentional” penalties.

Faking injuries is completely different because it involves using deception to gain an advantage, and there’s no way to penalize it. It’s the definition of cheating.

Great points. I was reading the game threads on the Ohio State website, and they congratulated their qb for rushing the snap so that the officials didn't have time to look at the first-quarter interception that should have been called. Some of these same fans are the ones whining about a 4-seconds-for-five-yards trade now, as well as complaining that their receiver ought to be able to push off to gain separation at the end of a game. Self interest drives all of these perspectives and it is basically impossible to avoid such accusations.

dthomas=ddixon wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:17 pm The two aren’t even in the same category and I’m surprised this is even a discussion in sports land.

We committed an infraction and were penalized for it. End of story. Intent is irrelevant because we didn’t get away with anything. It’s no different than intentionally committing pass interference in order to prevent a bigger gain (something tOSU did twice in this game, btw). No one’s crying foul over those “intentional” penalties.

Faking injuries is completely different because it involves using deception to gain an advantage, and there’s no way to penalize it. It’s the definition of cheating.

They are in the same category, Lanning put a 12 man on the field just before the snap on purpose, Lanning took advantage of a loophole in the rules, just as there no violation of the rules for faking an injury at the time. Please don’t be surprised, at this point it is a discussion in sports land, lol.

Alan wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:31 pm

They are in the same category, Lanning put a 12 man on the field just before the snap on purpose, Lanning took advantage of a loophole in the rules, just as there no violation of the rules for faking an injury at the time. Please don’t be surprised, at this point it is a discussion in sports land, lol.

Wow, that isn't even close to the same thing. Sheesh.

I think most, if not all the examples listed so far are in the same category. OSU, rushed the snap to avoid a review on the int, an intentional PII to avoid a TD, they are all a manipulation of the rules or non rule to gain advantage, that makes them the same category…… but we can simply agree to disagree.

I wonder if there will be a rush to prevent Kick Returners from standing out of bounds and touching the ball so they can induce a penalty against the Kicking team. It's the same thing with knowing the rule book and playing accordingly.

I also think the DL switch prior to bring the extra DB on was a brilliant aspect and also what makes it hard to show it was intentional. From a sideline perspective, you see 1 player rush out late so another coming on doesn't seem like as big of a deal until you do the count.

Rick Neuheisel's point about using that extra DB to seal off both the Inside/Outside option of Bunch against whatever Defensive alignment meant that we should have had Jabarr in single coverage with no help, but he had that Safety both before the timeout and after.

Frankly the bigger issue is that if it wasn't a rule, would Dan have taken the timeout? In hindsight he took away a Sack from Teitum who absolutely won that 1v1 against the backup LT before play was whistled dead. It would have been 4th down from the OSU 48 ~6 seconds or less after the timeout they'd have been forced to use. Plus, with Subsitition rules, once OSU were to sub on the kicking unit (should the situation arose), Oregon SHOULD be able to take their sweet ass time getting a new unit on the field. Would that have been unethical for the Ducks to not rush in that moment?

Alan wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 3:30 pm Is putting 12 men on the field any different (ethically) then faking an injury? I think it was brilliant and I hated when other teams faked injuries to slow the ducks down.

It's closer to fouling up three in basketball, rather than defend against the three. As a die-hard Blazers fan, I can't stand when teams foul up three (even though I would do the same). As a fan watching, I want the excitement of seeing if that last-second shot goes in and forces overtime. Fouling up three is good strategy and within the confines of the rulebook. It's boring, but you know what, it gets the job done.

This is what Dan did. I'd rather play straight up defense and get the stop, but I LOVE that he was so prepared for that moment and he did what he had to do (LEGALLY again) to secure a win this program desperately needed. Was the 12-players on the field in the "true spirit" of the game? Probably not. But it was legal, just one play, and I'd argue not even seeing a review on the first quarter interception wasn't in the "true spirit" of the game either.

It’s also hilarious that the NCAA immediately met and is going to change the rule midseason. All because Oregon committed a penalty that happened to take 4 seconds off the clock. Ole Miss has been blatantly cheating all season and not a peep from the NCAA.

Alan wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:31 pm

dthomas=ddixon wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:17 pm The two aren’t even in the same category and I’m surprised this is even a discussion in sports land.

We committed an infraction and were penalized for it. End of story. Intent is irrelevant because we didn’t get away with anything. It’s no different than intentionally committing pass interference in order to prevent a bigger gain (something tOSU did twice in this game, btw). No one’s crying foul over those “intentional” penalties.

Faking injuries is completely different because it involves using deception to gain an advantage, and there’s no way to penalize it. It’s the definition of cheating.

They are in the same category, Lanning put a 12 man on the field just before the snap on purpose, Lanning took advantage of a loophole in the rules, just as there no violation of the rules for faking an injury at the time. Please don’t be surprised, at this point it is a discussion in sports land, lol.

Strictly speaking, they are entirely different categories. Oregon was penalized for the offense. Teams are not penalized for ‘faking’ injury. Different categories. One exploits an advantage with no penalty, the other exploits an advantage and is penalized.

The NCAA can go and pollinate amongst themselves...

I love how the NCAA quickly reacts to something like this, but when a blue blood or SEC team blatantly cheats or pays players illegally (I know it’s different with NIL now) the NCAA is suddenly too busy.