The BCS

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wheaton4prez
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The BCS

Post by wheaton4prez »

What are your thoughts on the current state of the BCS?

I've taken an interest in the subject this off-season and have been following the news and commentary about it closely. I've even considered starting a blog about it. But, figured that I would start with a forum post first. :)

I'm in the BCS is broken camp. But, I'm interested to hear anyones perspective.

Of particular concern to me, as someone who wants to see it fixed, is that the pro-BCS side of the argument does seem to be gaining traction, if the blogosphere is any indication. Those arguments are specifically becoming popular in SEC circles. I think the reason is that the current BCS system benefits them the most since it bases the rewards of the game on fan base size more so than merit on the field. SEC fans are beginning to connect the dots and see that fixing the BCS system will expose the SEC more than other conferences to the possibility that the cash pipeline they are used to might have to be shared more some years with other conferences/programs. So, not surprisingly, some of them are seeing the light now that the BCS is really a great, unique system that "no other sport" gets to enjoy.
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UOducksTK1
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Re: The BCS

Post by UOducksTK1 »

I've moved this to the Kelly's Heroes forum, so more people could chip in.

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woundedknees
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Re: The BCS

Post by woundedknees »

Chip in... ? :roll:

IKMO, the BCS was broken before it really got rolling. The whole shootin' match was set up to put $$$, championship opportunities, and national attention on the conferences who came up with the idea in the first place (Of which the PAC 10/Big 10 were not included...), and so far, it would appear they have been pretty successful at that goal.
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UOducksTK1
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Re: The BCS

Post by UOducksTK1 »

woundedknees wrote:Chip in... ? :roll:
Oops, no pun intended.

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Re: The BCS

Post by SuperDuck »

The BCS is a joke! The only way to determine a TRUE national champion in ANY sport is by using a playoff system. It's being done by every level of every sport except D1 college football.

As far as the "bowl tradition" goes, there have been multiple playoff formats submitted that would include all of the major bowl games. As far as the minor bowls go, it wouldn't effect them in any way because the fans from the participating schools would still make the trip to support their team.

A playoff would have to be seeded with the lower seed playing at the higher seed until a final number of teams would play each other in the major bowls. The winners would then play for the championship in a bowl game that alternated each year, just as it does now with the BCS.

I think that there should be at least a 16 team playoff as there is in the lower divisions. You'll always have teams that think they should have been included and the only way to safely determine that you've got the best team is by including 16 teams minimum. There's too much parity in today's game to only have an eight team playoff.

The "Plus-1" solution wouldn't work either. How many teams do we end up with each year that only have one loss after the bowls? You'd only be including two of those teams and, once again, someone would be left out in the cold.

Guys, this is happening way too often in recent years. Great teams get screwed by a computer and a system that's broken! Look at undefeated Utah (twice), Boise State (twice) and Auburn (13-0). Texas not getting chosen last year after BEATING an Oklahoma team that had an identical record, and on and on. Oklahoma getting chosen over one loss teams USC, Penn State, etc.

OUR OWN OREGON DUCKS Getting Shafted By The BCS In Favor Of A Nebraska Team That Got Blown Out In It's Own Conference Championship Game!

As a matter of fact, I do believe that Oklahoma got to play for the title after they were blown out by Kansas State, 35-7, a few years back!

The system is BROKEN!!!

The only way to have a clear cut, undisputed champion in college football year in and year out is by having a playoff!

Case closed!
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wheaton4prez
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Re: The BCS

Post by wheaton4prez »

SuperDuck wrote:The BCS is a joke! The only way to determine a TRUE national champion in ANY sport is by using a playoff system. It's being done by every level of every sport except D1 college football.
I agree. But, the argument I've gotten against that is that play-offs don't really determine the "true" champion in cases where the losing team of the championship game had a better season before that game (ie. the Patriots).

Some of the debates I'm referring to can be seen here:

http://blutarsky.wordpress.com/2009/07/ ... -bcs-head/

http://blutarsky.wordpress.com/2009/07/ ... /#comments
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Re: The BCS

Post by goducks75 »

wheaton4prez wrote:
SuperDuck wrote:The BCS is a joke! The only way to determine a TRUE national champion in ANY sport is by using a playoff system. It's being done by every level of every sport except D1 college football.
I agree. But, the argument I've gotten against that is that play-offs don't really determine the "true" champion in cases where the losing team of the championship game had a better season before that game (ie. the Patriots).

Some of the debates I'm referring to can be seen here:

http://blutarsky.wordpress.com/2009/07/ ... -bcs-head/

http://blutarsky.wordpress.com/2009/07/ ... /#comments
It's a playoff. You determine the champion on the field as opposed to the mythical national championship put in place by the BCS. If you truly deserve to be the best team, then you need to keep winning. Once you get into the playoffs, it's a new season. Teams understand that going in. The Patriots understood that going into the playoffs their almost-undefeated year. Funny how the teams who go to the championship year in and year out are the ones that have bigger fan bases compared to other possibly more deserving teams every year (Nebraska over Oregon in 2001, Chokelahoma over Auburn in 2005, Florida over an undefeated Utah this past year, etc).
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Re: The BCS

Post by Greydrake »

Wheaton' you pretty much hit it on the head with the comment that the BCS is pretty much cash driven objectivity. The objective is to sell seats and drive revenue, not create a valid process to crown a national champion that all program at Div. 1 have a chance to compete for. Sadly it appears to be the only system being considered, perhaps as it appears that the SEC/ESPN( which now can be designated as ESECPN due to the tv contract) benefits the most from the current status quo.

IMO it will take 2-3 more undefeated legitamite non-BCS teams to make a statement in the season going undefeated and pouinding on an SEC team to shake the system. (TCU is my hope this year). Why SEC and no other conferance, simply because it is the unmerited perceived top dog that such an upset would make a statement (not to be perceived as SEC hate) That and perhaps a legal challenge under anti-trust rules (which I commented on earlier this year and has been the area of actual legal focus).

Otherwise the status quo continues, and frankly the next step which will probably occur will be a derivative of revenue sharing of BCS income to all conferances not a playoff.
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wheaton4prez
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Re: The BCS

Post by wheaton4prez »

Greydrake wrote:Wheaton' you pretty much hit it on the head with the comment that the BCS is pretty much cash driven objectivity. The objective is to sell seats and drive revenue, not create a valid process to crown a national champion that all program at Div. 1 have a chance to compete for. Sadly it appears to be the only system being considered, perhaps as it appears that the SEC/ESPN( which now can be designated as ESECPN due to the tv contract) benefits the most from the current status quo.
Just to play devil's advocate, since nobody here is representing the pro-BCS side, they will say "So what?" They will say that the BCS is a business and that they should be trying to maximize profits. "It's economics, my friend."

And I will say, "not so fast, my SEC friend." Demand for football is not dependent on any configuration of a post-season system. People will be loyal to their team and want to watch football no matter how good or bad the system is. It's misleading to say that the BCS wants to maximize profits. They want to maximize profits for specific people, at the expense of others. That is not a legitimate use of a "free market" argument because free market economics assumes that it is best for the economy of the industry at large.

There is no evidence that I have seen that shows that the current arrangement creates more profit from college football in general. It just places more of the profit in some peoples hands instead of others. More than likely, that creates a net LOSS in over-all profit for football. That's because if more profit was more available for over-achieving mid-majors, they would be more motivated to invest in their programs and make them better, thus broadening the size and number of fan bases across the country.

It is no coincidence that the pro-BCS arguments are coming from SEC fans. I have a strong stomach. But, that makes me ill to think about. I enjoy conference rivalries. But, when you get down to it, I don't hate the SEC. I appreciate, am interested in and respect the SEC as a major part of college ball. However, to actually want to promote a system that gives you major advantages due to fan-base size, over merit on the field, takes a corruption of sportsmanship, imo. It takes a lot of narcissism to be ok with your conference being "the best" not with proven merit on the field via innovation, heart, toughness, etc. but via market manipulation. I can't think of much that is more cowardly than that.
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Re: The BCS

Post by freedjr »

I have two major issues with the BCS.

1. They pass themselves off as crowing a national champion. However, not everyone has a chance to win it. Out of 119 teams, realistically on a few can win it, as evidenced by Utah last year. Yeah, they might not have the strength of schedule but to not even have a shot?

2. Going along with #1, polls and perception plays way too much into it. Look at the Big 12 last year. The "#2" conference who put up huge numbers and basically beat up on each other. What happens when they play teams outside their conference? Well, we saw what happened to Oklahoma (although slightly unfair since they did play the #1 team) but we also saw Oklahoma St., and Texas Tech lose, and Texas barely beat an Ohio St. team that got rolled by USC. Yet if Oklahoma doesn't make it to the big game, Texas would have. And if you asked almost any expert, if USC played Texas, Oklahoma, Utah or any of the other teams that were in the hunt, USC would have been favored.

I would like to see a playoff, but don't know if it's going to happen. I don't have the answers, just the questions. The one thing I like is outside of the national championship game, they don't pretend to match up the best teams, they're just interested in the cash. Lucky for Notre Dame.
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Re: The BCS

Post by duck55 »

freedjr wrote:I have two major issues with the BCS.

1. They pass themselves off as crowing a national champion. However, not everyone has a chance to win it. Out of 119 teams, realistically on a few can win it, as evidenced by Utah last year. pthey might not have the strength of schedule but to not even have a shot?
tOSU didn't hava anywhere the strength of schedule in 2007 yet got their shot. (why?)
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wheaton4prez
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Re: The BCS

Post by wheaton4prez »

freedjr wrote:I would like to see a playoff, but don't know if it's going to happen. I don't have the answers, just the questions. The one thing I like is outside of the national championship game, they don't pretend to match up the best teams, they're just interested in the cash. Lucky for Notre Dame.
Here is my basic outline for fixing the BCS:

1. Remove all subjective elements from the ranking system. Instead use only a points-based computer formula like the "Predictor" column on Sagarin's rankings. Cap the points counted to 20 over so that there is no motivation to run up the score.

2. Remove all automatic bids and bowl selections. Bowl match-ups are seeded by the now purely objective points-based rankings. No exceptions.

3. Include an 8 team play-off for the top teams. This would populate the traditional BCS bowls and guarantee that only one team of the play-off teams could possibly be undefeated.

---

That would fix the problems of bias in voting, advantages of scheduling cup-cakes and remove how debatable the results are. If someone doesn't make a bowl they wanted or win a game, there would be absolutely no question what they did or didn't do to reach that goal.

An interesting note about my system is that the Sagarin Predictor ranking put Utah at #10. That means that they would not have made the play-offs in my system (unless the over 20 cap brought others down enough which is possible). However, the reason for that would be explicit: they barely beat a number of bad teams during the season and didn't play enough good teams to make up for it.
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Re: The BCS

Post by Greydrake »

How about a minor tweak for the moment, that to be BCS bowl qualifying requires a team to play Div 1 schools only...and that to meet Bowl eligility win requirements, victories over Div2 schools.do not count.

A proposal I have heard, that I would like to see implemnted might be a Western regional championship, PAC-10 champion plays MWC champion in San Diego or other neutral site that would be a schedule boost for both leagues and put to rest the expansion talk of the PAC-10 which is not a good idea.
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wheaton4prez
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Re: The BCS

Post by wheaton4prez »

The reason I wouldn't like not counting Div2 wins is that it would effectively shut them out of opportunities to improve. The problem with them right now is that the rankings are based on wins only. So, that gives more weight to a win over a cup-cake for the purposes of ranking. If it were point-based instead of win-based, cup-cakes would be worth exactly what they should be (not much) but still something and possibly worthwhile to schedule if a team feels that their conference games are tough enough.
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Re: The BCS

Post by freedjr »

Greydrake wrote:A proposal I have heard, that I would like to see implemnted might be a Western regional championship, PAC-10 champion plays MWC champion in San Diego or other neutral site that would be a schedule boost for both leagues and put to rest the expansion talk of the PAC-10 which is not a good idea.
Right now, I would hate to see this. Do you really want the Pac-10 to lose their round robin schedule to see USC/Oregon/Cal play Utah/BYU at the end of the year every year? Ocassionally, it would be great. Others, meh. Definitely not good enough to do every year.
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